[Ifroham4]

Shall we discuss on the Historical facts.... imparting ..

.. the duly Valuable Lessons for guiding the FUTURE INDIA.?

[Peptobismol]

Miserable days of Jawaharlal Nehru, First Prime Minister of India

No doubt, Mr Jawaharlal Nehru was a Model Statesman.. an impeccable Gentleman of high calibre with Good intentions towards Advancemet of India ... of Ideal democracy.. ..

But he was severely criticised during his rule as well as later too by the Political Experts...that.. he erred mostly . Rather.. Blundered... How?

"r_kk"

// I agree to the reasons (behind the defeat in war) that you had mentioned (Nehru's overconfidence, India's unpreparedness etc). //

Not only Over-Confidence of Nehru and India’s Unpreparedness for War ... but also ..

.. his personal lack of Positive- Farsightedness based on Ground- realities and Fore- warnings,

.. Utter Neglect of Lessons from Past History..

.. Total Disregard of admonitions from the Indian Political-Experts

.. and Uncare of Opposition parties’ repeated cautioning notes of worth.

In brief .. because of his Autocracy emboldened by Brutal Majority in the Parliament, who were the blind Hero-worshippers and yes- masters to whatever Nehru says or gestures.

.. and also due to his Fanatic- obstinacy on the Inernal policy of Gandhian- Formulae of Non-Violence, and Handicrafts .. ignoring the mosaic culture and Heavy Population demands of Modern India .. expeditiously.

.. OVER-HASTE in attempt for epanding the NON-VIOLENCE Policy to International arena too .. at the cost of Suicidal Self- Defence- slackness,

.. which sort of Innocence and Ignorance was exploited by the extraneous Wicked forces In and Out .. How?
.
//.. my main question is whether Buddhist's non-voilence concept is the reason for Tibet's defeat. I feel they might not have done anything against China's aggression, even if they had well developed
Army.//

Yes.. the Non-Violence concept of Budhist-Monk ruled Tibet in conjunction with India’s raw hand of Independence Far-lacking in self-defence, as well as Non-combatant Attitude of Indolence or Non-Retaliative spirit .. Contrary to its vital-demand for a Nation ..

.. if not for every citizen Individual.

These brittle-potentialities of Sluggishness of a rich Nation tempted and attracted the Opponent wicked forces to cunningly plan to advance step by step and finally capture.Thus Violence has Won over Non-Violence ..

Action has won over Inaction.

Farsightedness has won over Non-Far-sightedness..

irrespective of Benefic or Malefic intentions behind the two Opponents.

// Any way this is one of the good historical subject, Indians have to know.//

Yes... India’s present day Youth ... MUST REMEMBER... towards their SUCCESSFUL FUTURE.

//Please throw some lights on what happened before and during the war.//

Yes .. To be Continued

[HedgeYourBets]

Please refrain from any kinds of bashing. The author is requested to edit his own post.

[S.T.D.]

Dear Mr.Nov,

//Please refrain from any kinds of bashing. The author is requested to edit his own post//

The way it was worded in the Public Newspapers and Magazines then and now too... in a DEMOCRATIC way...I have put forth the facts here.

However I have EDITED and made it a polished one now. Is it now OK?

Sincerely,
Sudhaama..

[Ifroham4]

I see the God's miraculous Hands in helping Dalai Lama by causing a Dusty wind which functioned as a Curtain for the Budhist's Monk's Convoy to elope towards India,
….
And the Innocent Non-Aggressive spirit of NON-VIOLENCE backed by the Emphatic Religious concept

As usual Mr. Sudhamma, you are bringing the concept of God and your belief system to all discussions. Here you had mentioned the protection of a Buddhist monk, who rejects the concept of God, was also by God!

Then what do you want to say? Do you consider that the concept of violence and war are better than non-violence? Do you know that few modern European countries have “just name sake” army without any fighting power?

I hope you know the fact that the major ruthless participant of Second World War was Japan, which is Buddhist country. Do you know the Suppression of Tamil rights in Sri lank was/is lead by Buddhist monks? These don’t mean the Buddhism as organized religion or Buddhist monks like violence or suppression. But it shows that just Buddhism doesn’t bring “buddhahood” (enlightened compassion) to its mere followers.

Non-violence is the universal concept for matured human beings. Some times it may not be an acceptable solution for the protection of nation since the concept of nation itself based on manmade political division, for the sake of protecting interests of particular group of people.

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Sudhaama wrote:
Shall we discuss on the Historical facts.... imparting ..

.. the duly Valuable Lessons for guiding the FUTURE INDIA.? Very interesting topic. I have been trying to understand these topics but without a good knowledge of history and economics, it seems quite difficult to find such solutions. Here are some tentative comments. Recently, I have come across three books which may have some relevance:
David S. Landes: The Wealth and Poverty of Nations: Why Some Are So Rich and Others So Poor?"
Jared Diamond:" Guns, Germs, and Steel",
John Kay: "Wealth and Prosperity, Why some nations are rich but most remain poor".
The last one was published in Europe under the title "The truth about markets". The first two, which I have not read, were reviewed by Brad DeLong inhis website http://econ161.berkeley.edu/ His reviews are follwed by comments of economists and historians. Apparently, the first book (by Landes) studies the theme why India and China which were quite competetive with the west started lagging behind after 18th century. Francis Bacon seems to have said that the three important tools for the modern developments were compass, printing and gun poder all of which came from China. From the discussion in DeLong's site, there does not seem to be any concensus even among the experts.
It seems that there are a number of factors and it is not clear which were the dominating factors and a crucial factor may be as inoccuous as the existence of suitable financial institutions at a suitable time. Most seem to give importance to the Industrial Revolution for the start of this dominance, first by England and then by other European countries. My friend Bimol Chatterjee says that this earlier start for England was made possible by Newton. According to Bimol, science before Newton was deductive and after Newton it became deductive. something like Steam Engine, one of the main stimulants of Industrial revolution, would not have been possible without deductive science according to Bimol. The above sort of ideas may have some truth in them. It is not clear to me why there are no tropical countries which are dominant.
It is also not clear to me whether religion, superstition etc have any role. All countries, through out history seemed to have a fair share of these. During the rise of Protestants, lot of discussions took place in Europe ( where as such took place in China and India much earlier) whether the consequent development of independent thinking among certain groups might have some influence. What role Euclid's Elements or Magnacarta had in this development must have been studied by some scholars.
There is another book which I read recently which seems more useful for studying the current problems. In "The Prize, the epic quest for Oil, Money and Power"", Daniel Yergin studies oil's role in shaping twentieth century history. Capitalism, mixed economies of various hues, communism etc seem to hold sway in partcular regions for a while but somehow nothing seems to work for a long time. Again as my friend bimol says capitalism seems to be natural but how to control it seems to be a problem. May be, we can just study how things worked in twentieth century for some guidelines. May be some of the participants like Aravindhan may have some insights. I too would like to know what would help India and the world get ahead without too much poverty and pain.
swarup

[Lillie_Steins]

-deleted-

[Raj_Copi_Jin]

Here we have to note the difference between the Non-Violence Concept of Sathyagraha..
...an INTERNAL AFFAIR... of NATIONAL move by the PEOPLE... raising their objection through their united gesture...

...and another Non-Violence Concept of Protecting the Nation from foreign Invasion...

Gandhi did support the British in WW I.
He offered moral support for the fight against Nazism is WW II.
It is not as if he did not understand the difference.

As early as 1920 in the brilliant article "Doctrine of the sword"

Gandhi[/url]]I would rather have India resort to arms in order to defend her honor than that she should in a cowardly manner become or remain a helpless witness to her own dishonor.

...so much for Gandhi allegedly having admitted his method to be a blunder of any sort.

The above quote is the kind of line that gets trigger happy nationalists swayed - so much so that they may ignore the gem that follows..

Gandhi[/url]]But I believe that nonviolence is infinitely superior to violence, forgiveness is more manly than punishment, forgiveness adorns a soldier. But abstinence is forgiveness only when there is the power to punish, it is meaningless when it pretends to proceed from a helpless creature. A mouse hardly forgives cat when it allows itself to be torn to pieces by her......

But I do not believe myself to be a helpless creature.

Just dwell on it for a moment. Are these the words of someone who was unclear. To attribute Indian foreign policy failures to the following of Gandhian ideals is incorrect, to say the least.

The way Patel put together this nation from minor Kings, the accession of Hyderbad (not to mention Kashmir), the despicable way India got hold of Goa are all progressive steps away and away. To call any of them in line with a shred of Gandhian thought is risible.Particularly the parallel drawn to today's problems. India's approach in home and foreign policies has been anything but Gandhian.I do not wish to elaborate on that statement as it is likely to take us goes beyond the scope of this Hub.

PS: Gandhi's exact words on Himalayan blunder are
I made a Himalayan blunder. I thought my people were ready; I thought they were disciplined for this task The only reference I could get was this one. As quoted by Martin Luther King in one of this books.

So I reiterate the "blunder" was not the method, but rushing to assume that people were prepared.

[radikal]

.. INAUGURAL DAYS of Independant India.

One of the main reasons why India was so easily VULNERABLE for repeated foreign Invasions was, because of the then existed Religious cultures .. over-emphasising Destiny.

Some Religions of India, even preach ... that Kings are not Gods and so are not authorised to punish the Culprit ... even after finding him guilty... but to leave it to HIS FATE.

... which also preached against maintaining a Military-force to combat the Possible-Enemy or for Self- Defence against Invasion by a Foreigner

So the Kings were DEFENCELESS... While the people were NON- RETALIATORY to enemy's Invasions... despite Human Valour available within.

... but accomodative enough by blaming on their ILL-FATES...

Even after India's Independance... We all know... how one of such a country was grabbed by a Big-power because of the Non- availability of even a small Defencive Force in the possession of the Non-Violent Ruler.

r_kk wrote:

Are these (except Tibet occupation by communist China) are based on any historical evidences? Do you know who invited foreign invaders to India? Please read Indian history. Do you know how much portion of India we lost to China in the last war? Even the powerful army of India couldn’t stop China, how do you expect poor small country like Tibet might have stopped China’s invasion?

Dear Mr. rkk,

I have to detail the True Historical events in this context... during the then Prime-Minister Nehru's Era.

In continuation of Gandhiji's Formula of Ahimsa to redeem Independance by wining over the Oppressor-foreigner... Jawaharlal Nehru the first Prime- Minister of India wanted to establish Non- Violence policy in his International conduct also. Indeed it is a LOFTY- IDEAL ... But to NURTURE the same spirit in other nations minds how soon and how far practiaable was the practical Question... UNTHOUGHT OF. by the Idian Strategy framers... mainly the then Prime-Ministyer.

So he founded the PANCH-SHEEL THEORY of Peaceful-Co-Existence of all the International countries

... resulting in the overall demands for the least of Military power in each country backed by mutual understanding all over the world.

Thus he propogated the Ideology of mutual trust and understanding to ensure Non-aggreesion on another country over any other Nation, irrespective of any sort of might of its own.

One of the World Prime-Ministers who appreciated Nehru on this Ideal and came forward to bring into action by means of mutual meets and discussions followed by lofty-worded agreement etc.... was Mr. Chow-en- Lai, the then Prime-Minister of China..

Nehru trusted him, since the other PM was so impressively exhibitive.

Prior to Independance days, British Government had set up and maintaining a Regional Defence- Military- force at Lhasa the capital of Tibet... which Battalion was at the command of the Indian-Viceroy at New-Delhi.. but at the cost of Tibet.

Chow-en-lai insisted Nehru saying.. " After all the Britishers were the Foreign oppressors who enslaved all of us and so thgey needed military forces all over the different Regiions... Why you and I need them... nor the country Tibet.?

Tibet and China are of similar culture of Budhism-concept. which Religion is the Dictum of Non-Violence. So I intend having a mutual Agreement with Tibet also... so that bth of or neighbours will live in peace and thrive together to advance.

So you must withdraw your military force immediately from Tibet."

Nehru believed Chow and accordingly sent a 30 day notice to Dalai- Lama the then Ruler of Tibet... that the Tibet's military protection no more rests with India,. and so will be withdrawn.

Immediately Lama rushed his Emissary to Nehru seeking the continuation of Defence-military, since he fears foreign aggression on his soil. and that he would bear the cost of India's military force deputed for the purpose based on a fresh agreement with Nehru. But this proposal was rejected by Nehru ... and the Batalion from Lhasa was withdsrawn... leaving Tibet unprotected.

Then Chow sent a Letter to Lama stating that Tibet is part of China and he must hand it over to them forthwith. Alarmed on it, Lama sent an emissary to China inviting Chow for negotiations at Tibet capital Lhasa..

But as per the International News of the days... that Lama's Emissary to China, was somehow made to sign in favour of China consenting for the accession.with it.

Lama's vociferous objection went unheaded and Tibet was captured by Chinese forces. .. within no time.

Consequently Lama the then Ruler of the Nation, had no other go than to stealthily escape... seeking Asylum in India.

Ah.! I see the God's miraculous Hands in helping Dalai Lama by causing a Dusty wind which functioned as a Curtain for the Budhist's Monk's Convoy to elope towards India,

... in the dark midnight from his palace on the Hills... thickly surrounded by the Chinese military forces.

as vividly narrated by Readers Digest then... even now brings tears in my Eyes.

Thus a National Ruler cum Religious Leader deemed as Demi-God by His Disciples, Tibetian people, became a pitiable victim of Betrayal ..

And the Innocent Non-Aggressive spirit of NON-VIOLENCE backed by the Emphatic Religious concept

... was OVER-POWERED AND SUBDUED BY AGGRESSIVE VIOLENCE force from an alien Soil.

Then how it became the Spring-board for Chinas Invasion on India... is another miserable Episode.

.. To continue.

Dear Mr. r_kk,

I am waiting for your comments, before I proceed further....Have you any Comment on the above?

r_kk

Dear Mr. Sudhama,

I agree to the reasons (behind the defeat in war) that you had mentioned (Nehru's overconfidence, India's unpreparedness etc). But my main question is whether Buddhist's nonvoilence concept is the reason for Tibet's defeat. I feel they might not have done anything against China'a aggression, even if they had well developed Army.

Any way this is one of the good historical subject, Indians have to know. Please throw some lights on what happened before and during the war.

[Paul Bunyan]

Hi there,
First of all Sivamala, I think ‘your’ ‘Well said’ were for Sudhaama’s words. Never on Earth would I dream of saying anything irresponsible like that without strong evidence.
And secondly why ever should we not make references to unpalatable history. It is a part of our PAARAMPARIYAM and I cannot understand why we should look at only the positive sides. We should learn from our history. I don’t want to divert anything from the topic in discussion. But exemplary is a very strong word and strong points are required to prove that.
It’s that our culture has some good and some not so good elements in it. If we are prepared to look at only the positive sides, then who are we fooling (ourselves I guess)?
We had to accept that things like sati existed and we should also be proud of the fact that we were able to route that out. I just hope we could do the same with the caste system. I think we had made progress like no one (in my knowledge) practices untouchability as it was practiced ages ago. But we still have a long way to go before showing the caste system the final door.
I am not denying that we had some great elements in our culture. But look at the whole picture, u never know what you see.
‘Only the positive side’ – Hmm, if we want to sing praises of anything, we can go on and on……….
I think only when we acknowledge the not-so-good elements in our history and accept it and work towards making things better and still be proud to be part of the culture can we call ourselves good.

Again and again I would reiterate the point that before Independence we were never one culture, different cultures…………………..

DSath

I will reply analytically soon.

[Drugmachine]

Over the centuries our civilization is classified broadly as Bronze Age, Iron Age……etc.
We are currently living in the Oil Age. May be Science and Technology as it has in the past may discover something else and we may proceed to an X- Age.

The geographical area which had a lead in S&T in that particular age triumphs over the rest. For example the Romans ruled the British and the British were fighting against Roman invasion. In that period the Roman S&T was much more advanced than the British. The Egyptians S&T almost came to a standstill when the Romans were in the height of power. If the Egyptians could have developed their technology to match the Romans then they wouldn’t have fallen so meekly. But the days of the Romans also came to an end (due to multiple reasons).

Did the British fighting against an invading power some 4000 years ago ever thought that their decedents would rule half the world one day. The truth is they did and their time also came to an end.

Personally I think it’s just a cycle………. The Next-Age could be dominated by anyone.

[brraverishhh]

.
Nehru's FAULTY POLICIES caused Kashmir-Problem. !!

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus...0710281928.htm

Yes. Yes. Yes.. Not only FAULTY...

... one amongst SEVERAL Himalayan Blunders caused these unnecessary problems...

...PERENNIAL... UNENDING Knots for the Posterity.

Kashmir problem was only caused by Nehru unnecessarily and autocratically.

Tibet- policy led to Chinese Invasion.

Pakistan plebiscite policy... made millions of Non-muslims leave their native places losing all properties and earnings...

...becoming Refugees unduly... A HEAVY BURDEN to India unnecessarily.

Irresponsible one-sided Industrial Policy...

...currently killing Indian Entreprenaurs in advancement and World competitiion... UNSURMOUNTABLE.

If Vallabhai Patel, Deputy PrimeMinister's words would have heeded by Nehru...

...India would have become GREATER & RICHER THAN USA.. by now.
.
.

[radikal]

.
.Why POOR FATE for Past India under Foreign Invadors?

.. A Historical Question.?

Originally Posted by Sudhaama Originally Posted by selvakumar What makes a billionaire?
Is it destiny or human effort?

"Who becomes a billionaire and is it destiny or human effort? The recent issue of Forbes magazine has listed the billionaires of the world by continent. According to the list America has the most billionaires at 415; Europe and Asia carry the following statistics: 242 and 160, respectively. Of all billionaires in the world it is said that 60% of them made it from scratch by themselves. I was reading this magazine while coming to San Diego. I am glad I picked it up. It triggered in me certain thought processes that would be useful for my readers. Let me try to answer this question whether destiny or human efforts make you a billionaire. By looking at the celebrity billionaire Oprah Winfrey whose assets according to the magazine are $1.3 billions. Everyone knows that Oprah rose from very humble beginnings. She only wanted to make money according to her age. She is currently 53 and that means that she would be making only $53,000. However she is a billionaire now, making several hundred million dollars annually.

Everyone knows that Oprah is an optimist and a very positive person. She always says that I have made it and you can also make it. No doubt she did make it. But the question still remains, is it Oprahs effort that made it, or her stars that made her a billionaire? Let me try to answer this question just from a rationalistic point of view. There are many people who have better skill sets and social and ethnic advantage than Oprah, but they did not become successful. They have not even seen a million dollars in their life. Empirical analysis would likely conclude that it is simply ones own skills that makes one financially successful. If it were so, then everybody who is good in their job would have succeeded. I just recall a famous line from Thomas Grey in his elegy written for the villagers who died without recognition or fame: many a flower is born; it wastes its fragrance in the desert air. There are genius persons, may they be scientists, political philosophers, or economists, who still cannot get their ideas even to the print media. They die completely frustrated and in poverty.

According to the siddhas and yogis, ones fortune or misfortune is the result of his karma. If Oprah Winfrey or Bill Gates became successful, it is already in their stars. Their skills do matter but only minimally so. Ones karma is everything. Karma is the law of spiritual causality. It is the spiritual law of motion that says that there is an equal and opposite reaction to your thoughts and actions. Look at Oprah Winfrey. She only wanted to make modest money consciously. But then her unconscious had a different agenda. Your karma is mostly the unconscious and what matters is the unconscious rather than the conscious. Your unconscious is your karma and is controlled by the planets. The Vedic seers developed this science of astrology to great details.

It is my goal in this lifetime to prove that Vedic astrology is a higher science. Everyone should study astrology in order to know what is going to happen to him or her in the present as well as in the future. For the past few years I have been asking my students to pay attention to happenings in their life. I am delighted to know that there are people who follow the planetary changes on an hourly basis. You should realize that if your karma is bad, it is not going to be uniformly bad throughout ones life. There are ups and downs, meaning good and bad, happenings. Even within one day the nine planets have their own slots of time to bring good or bad things for you. The hora astrology enables everyone to understand good and bad times for everyone on a daily basis

Very Well Said... Each and Every word is HIGHLY MEANINFUL AND PRETTY LAUDABLE. !!!

Backed by my Rich knowledge (mostly by WORST SUFFERINGS, INEXPLICABLE) gained by my Vast and intensive experience of varied hues, nations, regions with mosaic people...

..more than the other avenues of Knowledge from books and others...

...I can answer to the Valid Questions, Perplexive theories, Unravelled mysteries, Unending doubts, Incongruence of Truth with Reality, and Rudimentary concept of Life... raised here...

But... prior to my reply... I am anxious to hear from my other friends here.

My dear Learned Friends,

.. please speak out your rich knowledge on Life.
. Dear Sudhaama,

I am glad to read your post with anxious eagerness to share your thoughts. Thank you.

Well, let me begin by asking you a couple of very simple but important questions and request you to share your views on the following factual reality, which speaks for itself; and therefore, there is nothing much for me to elaborate on the lives of Indian people during those times, irrespective of who they were.

Here are the questions:

• Q1: In your view, exactly what factors made the entire India to become the horrific victim of waves after waves of foreign invasions; first by a handful of Moguls and then by a handful of Europeans (mainly British) making the entire Indian population slaves, rendering hundreds of millions of Indians dismally destitute (poor and impoverished) for over a thousand years?
  
  Q2: Also, to what extent your understanding on the above mentioned historic events correlate to your following appreciative words for the article, as quoted below?

Very Well Said... Each and Every word is HIGHLY MEANINFUL AND PRETTY LAUDABLE. !!!

Good Question... but pertains to INDIAN HISTORY...out of relevance to this Thread..

So I will answer in the relevant Thread... on HISTORY.

I had already raised to several Learned Scholars of various Knowledge-background... such as Psychologists, Spiritualists, Philosophers, Successful senior Professionals, Lawyers etc. personally at my young age itself...

.. and had even vehemently argued with them... countering their positive views...

... which FETCHED ME the RIGHT ANSWER for the Benefit of Future India...

In brief... my Answer to this valid and meaningful Question is...

Past days Indian Rulers... made their OWN ILL-FATE ..

...as also caused misery to their innocent people...

... who also are in one another way responsible... for the Poor Fate for themselves as also to the posterity.

Before I speak out in detail on those valuable knowledge.. supported by the long past several decades of my own parallel Life-experience...

... I am anxious to hear from my dear Friends of various Age-groups.
.

[NeroASERCH]

absolutely to the point. With Sardar Vallabhai Patel at the helm, India would have become
a strong and forceful country and a superpower long back. Other countries would have envied us.

[PhillipHer]

.
Agricultural India.?... Or... INDUSTRIAL?..

...Which direction is PREFERABLE. for India?

Vallabhai Patel and Rajaji vehemently argued... India was and is currently an Agriculturally Rich Nation.. No Doubt...

...Let us preserve and develop upto the PROPORTIONATE extent... like a Milk Cow....

..and Stop with it.. Not Banking entirely for the Basic Livelihood and Advancement of Millions of Poor Indians...

We will never be able to feed upto the full demands of Future Indian people...

...as AGRICULTURAL INDIA...alone..

...amongst the Scientifically advanced Nations by World trend..

India is an Unique Nation of heavy population of high intensity...

..for which the Right pursuits will be....

(!) To convert India into an INDUSTRIAL Nation... by encouraging Private enterprises too parallelly alongside the Government ventures.

(2) To open up abundant Schools all over India... nook and corner...

.. which can eradicate illiteracy within 10 years...

And also Educate the mass of HIGHLY BRAINY INDIANS... in Advanced studies especially Science, Engineering, Technology, Medical and Industrial subjects...

...by means of opening up abundant Universities widely spread over.

..which can lead to their own SELF-ADVANCEMENT... without further Government support.

By this healthy approach the colour of the past India as a poor Nation will dramatically change into a HIGHLY RICH INDIA...

...within a short period...

..mainly because of our RICH HUMAN RESOURCES."

Whereas Jawaharlal Nehru was radically Communist-minded and he counter argued...

(1) If the major parts of the parching lands are fed with adequate Water-flow.... that alone will make India RICHEST...

..but NOT INDUSTRIAL Approach.

No doubt...Industries can cater to the demands of Unemployment...

So we will start Large-scale Industries...WHOLLY AND SOLELY owned and RUN by the Government.

Since Nehru was politically the most powerful at that time... his ONE-SIDED words of Wrong direction.. only prevailed.

...Now we see its Result...

Nehru was BEGGING the world... calling India a POOR NATION...

..which statement was categorically opposed by Patel and Rajaji...

"No No. India is a HIGHLY RICH Nation... Ever and Ever... Then and Now too.

...by means of Not only Natural Resources...

..but also the HIGHLY BRAINY Human Resources... Unparallelly in the World.

So we have to develop those innate advantages of the Nation...

..to make India.. totally Independant for its needs... within 20 years... by means of

(1) Encouraging Parallel Privatisation... WITHOUT MONOPOLY... Nor Hegemony.. in the areas of Industries and World Trade.

(2) Rapid Industrialisation of Large-scale, Medium and Small-scale

(3) Build up abundant Educational opportunities by opening up anew...

...Schools in every Village.... Colleges in every Town... Universities in every City of India."

...said Patel and Rajaji.

But those healthy words reached the DEAF EARS... of the then mightiest Decision makers.

Now after Nehru's era... what is making India... Rich now...

..Contrary to Jawaharlal Nehru's picturisation in the World arena... as...

...POOR INDIA.???. !!!
.

[Beerinkol]

Sudama, was India poor country then ? Yes or no ? Is it a poor country now ? Yes or no ? What is the HDI measure for India ? Whats its rank ? I dont think it even within Top 100 to this day. What is wrong in asking for aid when we need it ? Is it not a responsible leader's duty ? Or should we make people perish in famine while we deny poverty and mal nutrition ?

What about China vs India now ? Do you think we can withstand today under any leader or any party of your choice in power ? What do you think the result will be if we clash against the Communist power today ?

The only way to become a super nation is to first recognise our Liabilities along with the assets. Each of the masses without food to eat is our liability. Make them an asset. Everyone of them. Just like Chinese are attempting to do. Thats the way to go. We cannot rest with complacent mood until then.

With respect to Nehru Vs Patel .. Patel never had the charm that Nehru had. Nor was Patel a leader recognised in the South like Gandhi or Nehru.

[LottiFurmann]

.

Sudama, was India poor country then ? Yes or no ? Is it a poor country now ? Yes or no ? What is the HDI measure for India ? Whats its rank ? I dont think it even within Top 100 to this day. What is wrong in asking for aid when we need it ? Is it not a responsible leader's duty ? Or should we make people perish in famine while we deny poverty and mal nutrition ?

What about China vs India now ? Do you think we can withstand today under any leader or any party of your choice in power ? What do you think the result will be if we clash against the Communist power today ?

The only way to become a super nation is to first recognise our Liabilities along with the assets. Each of the masses without food to eat is our liability. Make them an asset. Everyone of them. Just like Chinese are attempting to do. Thats the way to go. We cannot rest with complacent mood until then.

With respect to Nehru Vs Patel .. Patel never had the charm that Nehru had. Nor was Patel a leader recognised in the South like Gandhi or Nehru.

Dear "pizzalot",

If you have really gone through my above posting... duly, deeply and caught the real-sense it conveys...

...you would not have side-tracked the matter.

Please go through my posting once again... and then Oppose, or Criticise.. as you may feel like.

The present day Indian younger generation have to learn a lot from the past Histories, Views and Counter-views...

...alongside their Outcome.

The old bandicoots like me... who have personally witnessed those initial days vs the present day...

...of subjecting the innocent contemporary Indians... under the cruel clutches of the unnecessary negative consequences...

...due to AUTOCRATIC AND SELF-CENTRED Policies... of One Strong popular leader in power those days,...

.. leading to Suicidal Future- planning.!

So we are anxious to see our Indian brethren
to learn from the past as the Unparallel Practical Lessons...

..towards shaping the Future India... a PROSPEROUS AND SUCCESSFUL Nation...

...since India possesses Very many Riches ever since the Global Human Civilisation came to shape...

...especially the remarkable HUMAN-RESOURCES of INDIAN high brains.

Yes INDIA WAS NEVER POOR... It was utterly WRONG TO DEPICT SO...

...amongst the World-Nations... by the New India of Nehru's era.

In brief.. please note the Title Question raised in my posting....

. Agricultural India.?... Or... INDUSTRIAL?..

...Which direction is PREFERABLE. for India?

...on which I invite the views from one and all of you.
.

[radikal]

.
.Making RICHER.!.. Either the People or the Government.?

..which sort of Economic-Policy better for India.?

Not only by the Past experience of India...

..but also of other World-Nations as well.!!!...

- Peep into Foreign Nations
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewt...479092#1479092
.

[S.T.D.]

.
. Best Economic-Policy for India.? Why.?

..Not only by India's own Past-Experiences...

...but also other leading World-Nations as well..!!

- Peep into Forein Nations.
http://forumhub.mayyam.com/hub/viewt...480004#1480004.

In brief, it will be better if the India Government, frame their Economic Policy...and pay their attention more to...

(1) Minimise the Personal Taxes...

(2)Encourage People's Investments...

(3) Concentrate on every individual citizens Social-uplift and advancement ECONOMICALLY and Skill plus Knowledge by Education and Professional Training.

(4) Encouraging People's direct participation and Ventures... by substituting the Governments direct involvements in National Trade and Industries.

(5) Improve and Increase the Buying power of the People...

...on every individual by creating maximum opportunities for SELF-DEPENDANCY and ADVANCEMENTS...

...as is done in USA, Japan and Switzerland.
.

[doctorzlo]

.
. "My HIMALYAN BLUNDER.!"... Said Gandhiji.!. ?

.Non-violence.!... Best policy.?.. No.!.. Yes.?

India's First Prime-Minister Jawaharlaal Nehru & Dy.PM, Vallabh Bhai Patel... in Logger-heads.!

Here is an interesting analysis... on the True Events followed by...

... the suicidal Outcome of FATAL Result...

...caused due to the impracticable One-sided sense...

...coupled with the Crude-application of Non-Violence policy in India...

...on the "Self-made" concept of the Father of the Nation... Mahatma Gandhi... How.?

India's Constituition is strongly founded on the Non-Violence policy.

..Well.! COMMENDABLE.!!!... Emulative for all other Nations.!...

The Whole world appreciated such an exemplary Foreign- policy...

...of India as a Model-Nation for the World...

But was it SUCCESSFUL SO FAR.?

What happened in Reality... when such a Policy was adopted by India... in practice.?

Amongst the then Congress Leaders... there was a Conspicuous split...

..by the perception and the concept Non-Violence... itself...

...as applicable for any Ruler or Government.

The Non-Violence Concept of Mahatma Gandhiji...

(1) Friendly relations with all the World-Nations.

(2) Non-Alignment with any Nation.. Internationally... unlike all other Nations now.

(3) No Aggression by India on other countries...

...Not even subsequent Counter-attacks on any Nation...

...even if invaded by others...

...but we must only take up such cases of Offence... with U.N.O for rendering Justice... ensuring INTERNATIONAL- INVOLVEMENT and Global-Peace...

...conforming to the Goal and Commitments of U.N.O

(4) So conpicuous Military forces are NOT needed... since a WASTEFUL-EXPENDITURE...for the National Exchequer...

...and so just a Name's -sake Military-forces to protect the National Borders for Defence... is enough.

(5) Non-participation in any Military-blocs in the Global arena... like NATO.

Such a Novel- Policy... framed and mooted by Mahatma Gandhi ...

...unheard before... nor adopted by any other country, till then... was highly appreciated by Jawaharlal Nehru, Rajendra Prasad and Rajaji... followed by several others.

..But was laughed at as the Wrong- Interpretation and MISCONSTRUITION...

...of a highly meaningful concept of Non-Violence.

...and so vehemently opposed by One and the Only Sane and Solitary Voice...

...justifying his stand by stating...

..."Gandhiji's proposal is "Just Theoretical... and Not worth applicable in practice...

...especially for any Government of a Nation...

... and more specifically under the present Global situation of War-minded Nations

...and DUBIOUS atmosphere of erie Peace....

...due to continued Cold-War behind the Screens...

... rather a persistant and Concealed Threat for India...

...now left as a poor Nation by the British Occupants...

...although India is endowed with rich Resources by several aspects... even now.

Indeed Non-Violence must be our Firm-Policy...

But the Concept and Perception are far different by real sense"

Whose was that Sole Opponent Voice.?

Sardar Vallabh Bhai Patel... the Ever-mighty and UNPARALLEL Leader ever seen by India...
...who was proposed for the first Prime-Ministers post of Independant India... by several National Leaders...

... but was not approved by Gandhiji.

The Concept of Non-Violence according to Vallabh Bai Patel... is different thus.

(1) Friendly relations with all the World-Nations. - OK.

(2) Non-Alignment with any Nation.. Internationally... unlike all other Nations presently.

OK for the present.. Subject to Review time to time... by future Governments...

...suiting to the pracitical situations prevailing then.

(3) No Aggression by India or Counter-attacks on any Nation... even if invaded by others...

...but We must take up such cases of Offence... with U.N.O for rendering Justice...

...ensuring INTERNATIONAL- INVOLVEMENT towards Mutual understanding and Global-Peace...

...conforming to the Goal and Commitments of U.N.O.

No Invasion by India as an Offender... is OK.

But we must MATCHINGLY possess a mighty Military force for Defence...

...as we see now... even by small countries.

If any other Nation invades on us... we should Counter- attack... and regain our Mother-land...

...but return the others parts of temporarily occupied foreigners land as per status quo ante... after such Defensive wars.

And in such cases of disputes of Agressions... we the Victims... should never approach the UNO...

...but let the Invader initially report to UNO.. and raise his claim from us......

..on which we can be strong enough to defeat the Invaders false justifications.

Such a Moral-approach... conforming to our Vedic Principles...

...already successfully adopted by our Great past Indian Royal Leaders... Shivaji and Krishna-deva raya... are the invaluable lessons for us.

(4) Conpicuous Military forces are Not needed... since a WASTEFUL-EXPENDITURE...on our National Exchequer...

...and so just a Name's -sake Military-forces to protect the National Borders... is enough.
No... We cannot afford to be VULNERABLE under the Eyes of others...

...conveying the SUICIDAL SIGNAL plus an undue INVITATION for the Enemies...

...as also a conspicuous TEMPTATION for the Mighty Nations.

So we must possess a Strong Military Force as a DETERRANT. Why.?

Even our Vedic Gods, our Protectors... NEVER THE OFFENDERS... are the Deterrants too.!...

..Lord Vishnu constantly exhibiting WEAPONS with Him like Chakra, Bow & Arrow, Sword etc... Why.?

...Lord Siva holding Fire, Third-Eye, Garland of Skulls.. What for.?

Any and all the Vedic Gods... openly exhibit to the Viewers... their Graceful signs combined with Weaponry DETERRANTS also parallelly.

Even the Cow... which we name as the most Non-Violent and immensely Peace-loving Animal... is endowed with Two Horns. Why.?

Although we should NEVER BE AN OFFENDER on others... we should be strong enough in defence...

...conforming to the current International Military concept...

...because we have to retaliate in the same MILITARY- Language of our Enemies ...

...true to the sense of a proud and bold Nation.

(5) Non-participation in any Military-blocs in the Global arena... like NATO.

OK for the present... but subject to future Review...

... suiting to the time to time developments and Global situations.

Gandhiji did not agree...And he or others could neither defeat the opposition views...

...nor could defend his own misconstrued concept and perverted perception of Non-Violence.

Thus in spite of strong justifications by Patel...

...he was forcibly SILENCED by Nehruji and Rajaji...

...whom Patel reluctantly named as THEORETICIANS... on this matter.

...although equally patriotic and sincere to the purpose.

Consequently... Not only the Indian-people... but also the whole world has seen the PITIABLE OUTCOME...

...the miserable Result... leading to IRREVOCABLE LOSS to the Indian people en masse...

... alongside the Nation in the long run too...

Rather Non-Violence was a Gross Failure in some cases in the past.... How.?

(1) Forceful CREATION of Pakistan... by grabbing Indian lands of the erstwhile parts or whole of the provinces named Sind, N.W. Frontier province, Rajasthan, Punjab, East Bengal, Kashmir etc.

(2) Unending Kashmir Problem... seriously affecting all the four parties involved.

(3) Persistent Enmity with Neighbors... as a Cold-war... although outwardly friends.

(4) Invasion by China resulting in the loss of a part of Indian border land.

(5) Cumulative Heavy Financial expenditure... for all concerned, affecting the respective people as well as the Posterity.

(6) Some sections of all concerned... as well as the WELL-WISHER commoners... now feel...

...that the Two separated countries Pakistan and Bangla-desh could have been happier and better prosperous...

...without the suicidal VIVI-SECTIONS amongst one Great mass of UNDIVIDED Indian-people...

...backed by the enviably rich and glorious background of several centuries.

If Vallabh Bhai Patel's words would have been heeded.. there would not have been such a heavy massacre...

...amongst One Ancient Indian Nationals ...

...nor the new Countries named Pakistan and Bangla-desh.. could have been nefariously created by outsiders.

...nor the persistent Enmity amongst the Brethrens.!!!

Oh.! God.!!!.. the Great PROTECTOR of Humanity.!!!...

....Let UNIVERSAL-LOVE prevail everywhere.!!!

All the above-mentioned sufferings were unnecessary and unduly caused...

...because of Gandhiji's own self-made concept and peculiar perception of a GOOD POLICY of Non-Violence...

No doubt Gandhiji realised it later and CONFESSED on his WRONG-PERCEPTION of a Best Policy...

He named it as his own HIMALAYAN BLUNDER... a New Word... added to Dictionary...

...but it was too late to recover from the heavy damages and inexplicable woes due to severe Onslaughts on the INNOCENTS....

...suddenly caught unaware.

During the later part of his regime as the first Prime Minister... Nehru too realised his blunder in opposing Vallabh Bhai Patel's right reasoning...

...So corrected himself later... and implemented the Patel's right approach of Non-Violence...

...although PARTLY... and too late.!

Thus ...by BURNING THE FINGERS... towards the FATAL OUTCOME of Pitiable consequence...

...especially UNHEALING WOUNDS...

...the Indian History has PROVED TO THE WORLD what is the Real-sense and...

...the TRUE CONCEPT of Non-Violence.
.