[russmodel]

Olaf: But the end result of cultural interaction isn't necessarily to adopt a foreign culture 100%, right? I mean cultural evolution would be meaningless if that were the case and there'd, e.g., still be rampant seppuku in Japan or European food would suck (no spices).

Like you said, to benefit most from exposure to other cultures or traditions, you have to analyze what's good and what's bad, taking into consideration your own cultural tenets. Then you can make a good decision as to what you'll incorporate and what to leave out or change. In my (uneducated) opinion, kumdo is past the point of cultural "immersion" and has evolved into this phase of "analysis". I'm sure some would even argue that it's past "analysis" and has reached a "conclusion"...

So, I guess what I'm saying is that if the soul of kumdo and kendo are the same, then does it matter what color the clothes are?

[ZonaPutaX]

I totally understand how Sup feel about korea's past, but its more of personal belief here I'm more or less want to highlight.
Not sure how to put my wording into it, but what I'm trying say is, that since we are training in Kendo, of course we should open our mind for improvement in terms of the "art" itself. But if bring in changes for the sake of anti-imperial/nationalistic, it just mean to taint the "Art" you are trying to improve on.
Maybe like Olaf said, if you dispite the country, why do you still want to "Learn" it ? And for the Hwa-rang you mentioned, I would had thought these are more related to the Chinese martial-art in the ancient time than kendo (sorry for my ignorant if I got it wrong).

I'm not been anti-imperialism or Pro-Japanese about things here. Just feels that a culture art should not be affect for the sake of nationalism.
The war is a terrible thing. If people can settle their differences, and forgive their ancestor's past doing, this world will be alot better place to be. No point holding the past hatre to pass it to the next generation.

[AlexanderPalamayr]

Yes, I knew about the "adidas" stripes along the side of the hakama, but where does the velcro come in?

[KLIMOV25gyi]

I think you've hit the nail right on, cklin. Indeed, the aim and result of cultural interaction should not be a full adaptation of the new culture in question - that would constitute assimilation, hardly a healthy end result.

What I was trying to question was Sup's argument, that the distinctiveness in Kumdo attire can be wholly attributed to Korean players wanting to preserve their cultural identity in the midst of pursuing an ever-deeper understanding of a foreign art.

I think you're right - that Kumdo is past its infant phases and has evolved into a respected art of its own. If Kumdo practitioners all approached their training with the mindset Sup describes, I don't think Kumdo will have made the progress that it can now boast.

As to cultural interaction, of course it is ultimately about analysis, identifying the good and bad, so that one might eventually reap the best of both worlds. But it is also an objective analysis, without bias or resistence at the starting line.

Alas, why can't we just all hold our hands and sing, "we are the world..."?

Perhaps Confucius puts it best when he notes that while in the company of any two men, there is always something good he can learn from each of them, and them from each other.

[FredderiK]

Olaf: Thanks, but I think I was being unclear about that last rhetorical question I asked...

Kumdo and kendo are very similar, and yet they are different, with the differences perhaps born from nationalistic arguments as well as from fundamental practical differences (I gather that kumdo has a greater element of a "battlefield mentality", rather than a "dojo mentality" -- someone correct me if I'm mistaken).

I was actually trying to point out that if kumdo and kendo are similar, though differing in philosophy, then wouldn't it make sense to have different clothes, if only as a symbol of the differences?

(The anti-Imperial/nationalistic argument, regardless of what its detractors may say, is a strong one. Being from Hong Kong, I have no institution equivalent to kumdo and so I still find it difficult to explain to my grandparents -- who lived through that era of Japanese aggression -- why I continue to play kendo. Now that I think about it, kumdo could probably have made the explanations a whole lot easier! :P)

[Corryikilelet]

I think what cklin is referring to is the particular style of hakama that many kumdo players wear - the white hakama with the black "stripe" along the sides. If anyone has a picture of the Korean national team at WKC, for instance, we can show you an example.

I will try and look for such a picture.

A random note: the poll program is somewhat buggy - no one had voted when I got here, so I voted once, and it automatically updated the poll with one vote in each category...strange.

[bensabath]

Where's an example?

[Savviioor]

Well, there are two types of korean hakama -- (1) like a white Japanese kind, just with the black trim; (2) the velcro kind (this, I believe is the kind the Korean National Team wears).

Let me try to describe it:

Basically, there is no koshita, just a wide (black) belt that extends to wrap around the entire waist (this is where the velcro is). There are still obi on the hakama, but just the back two, which are tied in front first. The velcro waist band is then wrapped over the knot from the obi. It's actually a pretty neat invention, I think.

You can't really tell any of this when the tare is on though.

I'm wondering, is there any particular reason that a koshita exists a Japanese hakama? I mean, aside from it being fashionable or whatnot.

[TCjwwhcY]

>the sensei defiantely make u do non-stop kakarikeiko till your pant[s] drop.

[Nppracph]

OK, I've another poll question related to kendo-wear:

What do people think about uniforms worn by the Korean National Team?

I think the incorporation of velcro into the hakama is pretty neat.

[AndyColemants]

I guess I'll throw in my two cents here too.

I more or less hold the same opinions as KhawMengLee, though I don't know if I agree 100% with this statement that "kendo doesn't kill people, people kill people". Taken at face value, this is of course true. But if you dig deeper, I think really the objection raised by our grandparents is precisely the distinctly Japanese martial philosophy -- the whole a-bushi-is-ready-to-die-for-his-lord/kamikaze mindset -- that made that era so cruelly brutal. And it's true that this mindset is somewhat reflected in kendo philosophy. What I think they don't understand is that this easily (at least for me) transmutes into the argument that a certain percentage of that mentality is needed to really push oneself beyond one's perceived limits. It's that disregard for self (ego) that permits you to improve, in kendo and in all other walks of life.

Hong Kong was slightly better off during the period of Japanese occupation b/c it was under British rule. Still, my grandmother had to cut her hair and dress like a boy for obvious reasons. Walking near the bay, there would be headless bodies (and worse) from the Mainland floating out to sea...

It's hard to justify practising kendo in light of these things, but I make an honest attempt. What I get out of kendo -- lessons learned from perseverance, the mental gamesmanship, etc -- transcends cultural and historical boundaries. It might be true that you could very well learn these same lessons from Chinese martial arts, but then we get down to the question of personality. Even *within* Chinese wushu, someone's going to ask you why you choose to study shaolin instead of wing-chun, right?

Ultimately, the reasons for my choice are very personal. The straight-forwardness of kendo ("Keep center!" "Go forward!" "Zanshin!") resonates with aspects of my own character. It's straight-up. The cerebral me is fascinated with the seemingly irreconcilable dichotomy of reigi and the act of bashing someone's head in (that's another thread). And the quixotic me is happy to spend so much time learning something that is so practically useless.

Speaking along the lines of its impracticality: kendo is sufficiently divorced from its martial roots (the roots are more ancient), which -- I think -- makes it somewhat more palatable to my grandparents. Contrast kendo with jukendo (the crazy bayonet "art")... even I think that's a little extreme.

In the end, people have to be proactive about bridging cultures, especially when there's been a bloody history amongst them. My generation doesn't know the horrors of East Asia in the 1940-50s and as a result, it's senseless for us to continue intensely hostile sentiments. I sometimes run into very nationalistic people my age who point to that period in history as a reason for censuring all things Japanese (or British, b/c of the colonial rule - which incidently, I think ultimately brought a lot of good to HK). That kind of puts me off because these people usually hold such sentiments because they don't really understand their own culture and end up using this kind of extreme nationalism as a cover for their own cultural illiteracy.

As KhawMengLee said, we shouldn't forget history, but this is so we aren't doomed to repeat it...