[Viafdrear]

we have a sensei but he is not in a healthy state, we must direct our information to sempai Gattone he has taken over the dojo with permission. I'm sorry I didn't clarify this, sorry to add frustration to your post.

Okay, you might have mentioned this earlier to clarify the situation. It's beginning to make a bit more sense now.

If your sensei isn't around (especially if he/she is absent for a long period), then the most senior sempai is the one in charge and the one who needs to take responsibility for issues like this. You should definitely bring up the issue with him and have him observe the troublesome newcomers. If they somehow seem to be able to tone down their rough play whenever the most senior sempai is watching, then you must tell him about this also. It may require that the senior sempai look out of the corner of his eye to catch these guys in the act, so to speak.

My other question to you is, does any other sempai have an issue with these guys? Surely, if they are as rough as you say they are, some other sempai must have done keiko with them or at least seen them. How many yudansha do you typically have at any given practice?

[Klorissana]

fe-taru, Do you practice in some university kendo club, where the practice is usually lead by seniors?

I have similar situation, not as serious as yours though, in my university kendo club.
He was a big guy, in so much fond of taiatari, in addition to wild datotsu. For advanced kendoka, he was not a problem at all, they could easily deal with him. But for begginers, he was the one to avoid.
I don't really have any suggestions, sorry.

[NewYorkDoctorD]

I experienced something similar in a totally different art, but yes, it can destroy the spirit of the dojo and risk injury to others.
The 1st question i'd ask back at you is: if most of the students don't like them or their attitude, why the hell hasn't the sensei of sempai had it out with them or even cautioned or banned them?
The wellbeing of the students lies ultimately with the sensei, so he/she should step in and sort it.
Failing that, tsuki the living hell out of the b*stards, and see how they take it. Failing that, let the other guy confiscate his knees in the parking lot for him.
I respect harmony in the dojo above all, but if these two tossers won't respect any of it, then deliver them the beating of their lives.
Are they bigger and more menacing than the rest of you? Maybe a misguide kote to the knuckles will make a start...... good luck.

Yes they always talk about how they know all of these open handed MA and how they wish they can kick and punch in kendo. The main one I'm talking about has made the females in our class crazy and she is a little girl. The problem is confrontation people mostlikely think they will like try and break there neck hence the student that wants to draw blood, the part that really gets me is that I really think highly of my teacher and I don't want to offend him.

[7UENf0w7]

I don't know... I would normally do these 3 steps in these sorta situations in any places; at schools, at work, or even at dojo. 1. Go talk to the person first, address the problems witht hem first (and hopefully you did). Then 2, go talk to your sensei about it... I don't mean to make you feel like a whiner, but that's a proper and respectful AND most peaceful way to solve these kinda situations. If this continue, you can either ignore them (I do because I don't wanna deal with idiots after went through the first 2 steps already), OR you can take things in your own hands which I don't normally do. What I mean is it's hard to ignore them in a dojo. The best way I can think of is when they hit like a baseball player, hit them where they open really hard or knock their shinai off and tell them, if you keep doing it wrong, I'll keep hitting you (just like my sensei and senpai did). If they keep doing it, I mean, these guys are hopeless. And why not keep hitting their open spots just for fun? hehe

I have tried to tell the main person many times, and the other guy I just parried the whole time and made him hit even sloppier than what he was. Don't get me wrong, if they were to not try and hurt people during practice then they might be good look good and so on but it has gotten to a point where it feels useless, and I really care deeply about this dojo and I don't want to offend anyone at all. My sempais and others in the dojo I look up to and respect highly.

[Gogogo]

Your Sensei should have some idea of how the dojo is run. His students' kendo is a reflection of his kendo/teaching/understanding of the art.

Therefore, he should have had a few words with the individuals in question else his kendo is the same as theirs then I suggest you find a new dojo

My sensei has told me on many occasions if I come up with a kendoka (one in particular) who I feel like its not worth practicing with simply say no to the practice. Kendo is your hobbie and you should be enjoying it.

and hey whats wrong with a kung fu or karate or boxer teacher?

no no ...all at once they want to like kick and punch during practice and it shows in their waza, it's brutality, not kendo. And they are no teacher, they wanted to teach me gung fu or something like that and it was not, err in a teaching style, it was to train someone to try and beat up, I would rather shatter the wind pipe and laugh rather then be a punching bag.

[9rCR9hWL]

Okay, you might have mentioned this earlier to clarify the situation. It's beginning to make a bit more sense now.

If your sensei isn't around (especially if he/she is absent for a long period), then the most senior sempai is the one in charge and the one who needs to take responsibility for issues like this. You should definitely bring up the issue with him and have him observe the troublesome newcomers. If they somehow seem to be able to tone down their rough play whenever the most senior sempai is watching, then you must tell him about this also. It may require that the senior sempai look out of the corner of his eye to catch these guys in the act, so to speak.

My other question to you is, does any other sempai have an issue with these guys? Surely, if they are as rough as you say they are, some other sempai must have done keiko with them or at least seen them. How many yudansha do you typically have at any given practice?

actually I think our other sempai that just left for Japan has had a few problems but he has not really reacted but he is far more advanced and most likely smaks them around a little bit. When I was friends with them like right in the very beginning of me getting bogu these guys were talking about beating him up this is where I decided to not be friends with them any longer. But I really don't know if anything has happened between them and John sempai, I try not to ask many questions I feel it can be disrespectful. I don't want to offened anyone that I respect so highly.

[GDRussiayear]

don't get me wrong our sempai is great but there are things that go astray when he is not looking. He tries very hard to teach well but these guys, the main one in particular, are obviously in kendo for the wrong reasons. I admit I have alot to learn and I feel that I will be decent some day but not anytime soon, I just would like to have a good change of learning rather than learning to duck and save myself from retiring from kendo at an early age.

[Xbcofega]

Now, I think I understand your situation. Howcome your sensei does not say anything ? If our sensei see someone doing nito, he will jsut tell him to stop. I heard that you should start Nito when you are about 5th dan or some high rank. If our sensei sees someone is kicking or showing kungfu move, it is not acceptable. Even worse, if they continue geiko with broken shinai, it is not safe either. You should complain to sensei about the situation and ask him to be more responsible for students safety.

[indartwm]

Okay, I am also losing my patence with you now.
Let me tell you one more time. It is SENSEI or Instructors's responsibility to make your dojo as safe place. Why are you keep concern about Sampai ??? Sampai does not have control over your dojo. Go talk to your Sensei directly for you and other's safety sake !!!

Well, the thing is when he turns his back the main guy looks then does his damage. Sempai does keiko the same time we do and when he does sit on the side and watch the main person tones it down just enough to not have an intervention. There is a serious problem with their behavior, I'm at work right now but I did go ahead and call my sempai to talk with him about this but I had to leave a messege I just don't want him to think badly of me I just don't want to see the younger students get hurt, I tell one of the other young kids to just watch him and not fight against him thankfully he takes my advice, gladly.

[enasseneiff]

Hmm, well in the same thread at e-bogu I advised to talk to your sensei. But with more information here, you may want to consider finding another place to practice. If he can't keep discipline over such a basic thing as people using shinai without sakigawa, then your dojo is a dangerous environment and should be avoided.

[Seerseraxlils]

I experienced something similar in a totally different art, but yes, it can destroy the spirit of the dojo and risk injury to others.
The 1st question i'd ask back at you is: if most of the students don't like them or their attitude, why the hell hasn't the sensei of sempai had it out with them or even cautioned or banned them?
The wellbeing of the students lies ultimately with the sensei, so he/she should step in and sort it.
Failing that, tsuki the living hell out of the b*stards, and see how they take it. Failing that, let the other guy confiscate his knees in the parking lot for him.
I respect harmony in the dojo above all, but if these two tossers won't respect any of it, then deliver them the beating of their lives.
Are they bigger and more menacing than the rest of you? Maybe a misguide kote to the knuckles will make a start...... good luck.

[Garry Hovard]

I can really sympathize with you in your situation. Although my experience isn't nearly as bad, it has it's similarities.

Alright, at our dojo there is(or was, not sure where he has been)this one fellow who had been bogu at the time I started kendo(June last year). Anyway, after I got into bogu, I guess you could say I began to catch up on him, skill-wise. Whatever the case was, he must have felt threatened and in ji-geiko, he would start to go really all-out rough and sloppy(similar to what your two kendokas are doing). But please note, this guy is by all means a respectful and good-kendo person. He just wanted to show me who's who. Anyway, I got tired of him acting like this, so I layed some smack down. In the end though, we were pretty evenly matched.


My point: show these guys who's boss, smack them around a bit. And, put simply, when push comes to shove and the match gets more rough, taia-atari the guy on his ass and sneak a solid men in, you know the kind that really smarts. Show them what you think of their behavor.

Also, I'd talk to your sensei or sempai if it continues.


Just my advice.


-Holmgren-san

errr fighting force with force is not the best way to go about it. it will make your kendo look bad and make people think that your kendo styles are the same.

Why not try to beat him with good kendo?

Yes I can understand that it could be very frustrating to see beginners progressing and passing you and wanting to show them who is more senior.

Some people do progress faster than others.

[@Aerodyno@]

don't get me wrong our sempai is great but there are things that go astray when he is not looking.

I'm still a bit puzzled by the circumstances. You haven't mentioned yet whether your sensei has observed these guys practicing. If he has, and he hasn't felt a need to intervene, that seems to indicate that your sensei doesn't see anything particularly wrong with their behavior.

[Gudronich]

Thay literally make it so you cannot perform with good waza, you have to duck to not have your ear drum popped, it has almost happened 5 times to me with the main guy in kirikaishi (sorry again for the spelling) I like to be able to hear, and I don't want to see my wife mace anyone AGAIN although it did kinda turn me on.

What Waza are you trying to do? why not just go for a good clean men or kote? what grade are you?

as for kiri kaeshi, its your job to proctect yourself to some extent. A good practice would be to learn how to block/deflect the cuts correctly.

[padlabtard]

Could you clarify a couple of points? Are these guys that you're having problems with your sempai or kohai? Has your sensei seen these guys practice?

[newpiknicker]

errr fighting force with force is not the best way to go about it. it will make your kendo look bad and make people think that your kendo styles are the same.

Why not try to beat him with good kendo?

Yes I can understand that it could be very frustrating to see beginners progressing and passing you and wanting to show them who is more senior.

Some people do progress faster than others.

No no. You must have misunderstood me. I wasn't implying that you fight back with bad kendo. I was trying to explain the differences between the way kendoka normally fight(calm cool and collected), and the way we fight when we "step it up" such as stronger taia-atari, more intimidating kiai, moving around the arena(the term escapes me) more quickly and with more agility. It is definately more spirit or stamina driven. But not nearly to the point of being considered "bad kendo" or sloppy. It's more of a way of giving it your absolute all, putting your kiai and body into it as far as you can, and again, without being bad kendo.

[SOgLak]

What Waza are you trying to do? why not just go for a good clean men or kote? what grade are you?

as for kiri kaeshi, its your job to proctect yourself to some extent. A good practice would be to learn how to block/deflect the cuts correctly.

I'm refering to all waza, all of it , it is all dangerious, I do know you must protect in kirikaishi but not when they TRY to pop your ear drum or make you cry out in pain. I'm going to be testing for the first time here in OCT so I have no rank I doubt they will test at all, like I said they feel they need no rank they most likely think they are worth more then what a qualified shimpai would award them with.

[gugqgbyzlp]

fe-taru, Do you practice in some university kendo club, where the practice is usually lead by seniors?

I have similar situation, not as serious as yours though, in my university kendo club.
He was a big guy, in so much fond of taiatari, in addition to wild datotsu. For advanced kendoka, he was not a problem at all, they could easily deal with him. But for begginers, he was the one to avoid.
I don't really have any suggestions, sorry.

oh it's ok if you have no info to add maybe some of this can help you also. I go to the University of Arizona and they are actually talking about him being directly related to this club, I think that will be a very bad choice. It is very much an experiance thing but here is the funny part if you watch this guy none of his hits would ever be considered ippon nothing looks good at all. I was tolk from a really influetial sensei from California that kendo is supposed to look pretty not forceful we are holding a sharp blade, not really but it's supposed to be simulated as a sword battle kinda, don't quote me on that I don't want to mess up his wording it was much better when he said it.

[cepAceryTem]

I'm still a bit puzzled by the circumstances. You haven't mentioned yet whether your sensei has observed these guys practicing. If he has, and he hasn't felt a need to intervene, that seems to indicate that your sensei doesn't see anything particularly wrong with their behavior.

Well, the thing is when he turns his back the main guy looks then does his damage. Sempai does keiko the same time we do and when he does sit on the side and watch the main person tones it down just enough to not have an intervention. There is a serious problem with their behavior, I'm at work right now but I did go ahead and call my sempai to talk with him about this but I had to leave a messege I just don't want him to think badly of me I just don't want to see the younger students get hurt, I tell one of the other young kids to just watch him and not fight against him thankfully he takes my advice, gladly.

[bahrain41]

I don't know... I would normally do these 3 steps in these sorta situations in any places; at schools, at work, or even at dojo. 1. Go talk to the person first, address the problems witht hem first (and hopefully you did). Then 2, go talk to your sensei about it... I don't mean to make you feel like a whiner, but that's a proper and respectful AND most peaceful way to solve these kinda situations. If this continue, you can either ignore them (I do because I don't wanna deal with idiots after went through the first 2 steps already), OR you can take things in your own hands which I don't normally do. What I mean is it's hard to ignore them in a dojo. The best way I can think of is when they hit like a baseball player, hit them where they open really hard or knock their shinai off and tell them, if you keep doing it wrong, I'll keep hitting you (just like my sensei and senpai did). If they keep doing it, I mean, these guys are hopeless. And why not keep hitting their open spots just for fun? hehe