[Sdzqerty]

The best budo feedback, that you can surivive from, comes from sparring in UFC-style MMA format, in a dojo with considerate bushido and, even better, in competition, if you're fit enough.

MMA involves more spirit, depth of skill, and strength then at least one Kendo person in our Forums suggested this month.

That's what I like about Kendo -- frequent feedback, kind of like MMA, tho' a bit lighter on sharing pain.

"I hurt, therefore I am," a Hapkido motto. BTW, I am a beginner in Kendo.

Kindly comment, please....

[wheettebott]

I would, but I didn't really understand what you're trying to say...

[Leaters]

I think he is trying to say he is an internet tough guy, and possibly a mall ninja. I cant really tell, I am no longer fluent in teenager.

[HondasMenFox]

The best budo feedback ...

I think I consider "sport fighting" and "budo" to be pretty distinct.

John "someone's gonna explain 'considerate bushido' to me, right?'

[Cheeniandab]

I think I consider "sport fighting" and "budo" to be pretty distinct.

John "someone's gonna explain 'considerate bushido' to me, right?'

You're right, sport fighting" and "budo" are not the same, thought from the similar source

[Maydayvar]

The best martial arts feedback, that you can surivive from, comes from sparring in UFC-style MMA format, in a dojo with considerate bushido and, even better, in competition, if you're fit enough.

MMA involves more spirit, depth of skill, and strength then at least one Kendo person in our Forums suggested this month.

That's what I like about Kendo -- frequent feedback, kind of like MMA, tho' a bit lighter on sharing pain.



Kindly comment, please....

I was trying to compare Kendo with other martial arts. Sorry about the lack of spell check

[Rufio]

To be quite honest, the people I have met who practice MMA were a lot more straight forward, less passive agressive and were less likely to condone/behave in the manner that I have witnessed in the more traditional martial arts styles and listed on the kendo-world forums.

[emorbimefed]

I think he is trying to say he is an internet tough guy, and possibly a mall ninja. I cant really tell, I am no longer fluent in teenager.

o

Good one, touche.

And funny, really.

No, I am not a tough guy, though I would like to be fit and have a good understanding of martial arts.

[FYIbiatches]

... "someone's gonna explain 'considerate bushido' to me, right?'

In a dojo, we are considerate in that, foremost, we use control to prevent injury, adjusting the level of pain appropriate to the partner.

I've found that I learn much from sparring with MMA players.

[EzekelEnzino]

I would, but I didn't really understand what you're trying to say...

So sorry, I was in a hurry.

I would like to compare Kendo sparring vs. martial arts sparring, in gaining feedback with a partner that's hitting back.

Hope that's more clear.

[kranfid]

To be quite honest, the people I have met who practice MMA were a lot more straight forward, less passive agressive and were less likely to condone/behave in the manner that I have witnessed in the more traditional martial arts styles and listed on the kendo-world forums.

---- thank you very much for considering my question -----

[f29sXS07]

... I cant really tell, I am no longer fluent in teenager.

I am still conversant in "teenager."

I actually coach teenagers and I think they listen to me. At least they seem to do what I ask.

[Kk21pwa9]

---- thank you very much for considering my question -----

Its probably a cultural thing. While MMA is a ruleset rather than an art, the schools that practice it are very much results oriented. There far less of the wish fufillment/roleplaying (an attraction for some to be sure) and it is much more upfront on what you are there to do. Thats not to say that MMA is perfect, it has its own problems. Kendo and other do arts have to reconcile violence with character building.

As for skill its an apple and oranges thing, but you have to be conversant in a wide variety of techniques and ranges than you do in kendo. On the other hand with only 4 basic targets, its not exactly easy to score a point in kendo either.

[6M8PJigS]

There's an interesting argument to consider that MMA is at a point now where kendo was during the early Meiji era and the time of gekken and Sakakibara Kenkichi. Gekken must have gone through a period of 'improvisation' while the rules and conventions were sorting themselves out. Over a decent period of time we get modern kendo with its rules (both written and unwritten). This article looks at the effects of UFC becoming more and more codified (defined by its own rules). It is interesting to consider that in 150 years, MMA may be as codified as kendo is. b

[CibQueersejer]

There's an interesting argument to consider that MMA is at a point now where kendo was during the early Meiji era and the time of gekken and Sakakibara Kenkichi. Gekken must have gone through a period of 'improvisation' while the rules and conventions were sorting themselves out. Over a decent period of time we get modern kendo with its rules (both written and unwritten). This article looks at the effects of UFC becoming more and more codified (defined by its own rules). It is interesting to consider that in 150 years, MMA may be as codified as kendo is. b

Thank you for your article: http://kojutsukan.blogspot.com/2010/...ethods-on.html

Martial arts, as a business model marketed to mostly working people with limited time and income, benefitted from compartmentalizing and liability insurance-proofing the martial arts, budo.

With limited resources, amateurs focusing one aspects (at a time period of years) of martial arts enble some understanding and a lot of benefit from a limited study, but in the olden days only the leisure class and the dedicated could learn real, comprehensive, martial arts, that had no modern, artificial divisions on weapons, unarmed stand-up striking, take-downs, and ground fighting.

While kata builds good form, distancing and effectively penetrating defenses can be best understood by some form of "fighting" (AKA sparring) that balances technique, spirit, and pain, with managing the risk to injury.

For me, the "sharing" of pain by sparring to reveal our true selves in action serves as useful element of learning, the "do," along with Zazen practice and kata (forms).

What struck me is that both Kendo and MMA spend a good portion of their time in "sparring" and both pursuits reveal the depth of understanding of the mind and body.

[11Pecepebra]

While kata builds good form, distancing and effectively penetrating defenses can be best understood by some form of "fighting" (AKA sparring) ...

Old discussion, I suppose, but - is this true? How would one know? How do you know? Do you assert that an understanding of maai ("distancing and effectively penetrating defenses") isn't taught in kata? Folks can certainly do as they like, of course, none of it is life and death nowadays, I'm just asking.

I certainly expect that practicing sparring would make one better at sparring, of course, but ... kendo/boxing/MMA, one can be pretty certain that the other guy hasn't brought a knife, yes? Before anyone feels obliged to pile on, sure - in Japanese koryu, too, I'm not going to spend my time worrying about getting shot in the middle of training, either. After having some modern budo and koryu experience, I thought doing kendo was great, and admire the skill sets of some of the serious exponents I've seen; but I don't think it's the only way to get "it", and there's other things that have some other aspects of "it" along for the ride. Heck, I'm never going to box, but sheeeeit - Foreman/Ali, Zaire(DRC)? IMHO, YMMV, so on and so forth.

I can't comment on Hunter's point about some of the people stuff, though it wouldn't surprise me if he has a point about at least some folks. I'm sure there's places to do serious work in more traditional curricula, sport-fighting settings, and modern budo alike, and places where people are wrapped up in other stuff. Feet, get to voting.

John "still - 'bushido'? really?"

[OpVJokl8]

Kyudo...i do not have time to practice this, but as is practiced, archery, on its own, would be hilariously impossible to make contact without destruction: "somebody will get hurt real bad" (Paintball guns, don't laugh too hard, might be a substitude? humor intended).

Kendo/kenjutsu, Judo/jujitsu, or karate/gungfu/tkd/etc all provides a means to work on "mushin" state of mind, to dicipline the ego and fear, to make holistic contact balanced with safety from chronic injury.

This Lounge does provoke thoughtful answers like no other forum.

While i enjoy polishing my mind abd getting my arse beaten during MMA-type sparrind, in a dojo, I would not want to play that in competition, but Kendo seems viaable; howecer, does Keno games promote mushin? (my guess is yes, but be careful)

[juidizHusw]

kyudo doesn't really work as an argument because hitting the target isint the goal.

[fkjghfg]

kyudo doesn't really work as an argument because hitting the target isint the goal.

That's not true of all, or even most, historical and extant kyudo koryu, though 'accurate', at least to some extent, of the highly Zen-affiliated Heki-ryu widespread in North America. Even they have targets, so ...

"Tea and Zen are one" is a popular saying amongst chanoyu practitioners, and Rikkyu's tea is certainly deliberately a vehicle of Zen, but if there ain't tea in the bowl when you hand it to the guest, you can be as enlightened as the Buddha and still be a lousy host.

John

[cingularring]

When considering "budo", every time I score ippon on my opponent or he scores ippon on me, that strike is considered a killing strike and it happens in the blink of an eye. The budo in kendo is to kill your opponent. With MMA, the goal and mindset is not to kill, but to knock out or submit your opponent, I don't see much budo there. I'm sure there are techniques that can kill a person, but you don't spar or train that way. As for budo, I would rather slice someone to kill them than choking someone or bashing thier skull in or what ever other hands on brutal way MMA folks would go about killing someone.