[Terinalo]

My name is Lunadia, and I am new to the forum. I've been studying Buddhism for some time, and I consider myself a devotee of H. H. the Dalai Lama. His philosophy makes sense to me over all other beliefs whether religious, political or moral.

My question is: In my effort to find compassion for a person whose actions have been despicable toward others, is it necesssary for me to rid myself entirely of my contempt for those actions?

[ExpodoDop]

con·tempt (kn-tmpt)

1. The feeling or attitude of regarding someone or something as inferior, base or worthless; scorn.
2. The state of being despised or dishonored; disgrace.
3. Open disrespect or willful disobedience of the authority of a court of law or legislative body. Contempt is a secondary emotion (not among the original six emotions) and is a mix of the primary emotions disgust and anger. The word originated in 1393, from the Latin word contemptus meaning "scorn." welcome Lunadia

my personal answer to your question here is probably 'yes'. in my opinion, it is important to remove any 'anger', 'hate' & 'loathing' from our mind

however, imo, we do not remove the perceptions of 'harm', 'unskilfulness' & 'unknowing ignorance' from those actions

if another human being is not doing something harmful, unskilful & ignorant, then what basis do we have to develop compassion?

the person acting under the power of ignorance is the condition for us to develop compassion towards them

kind regards

element

***

[qwerty1]

Great post on the topic from Element.

On reflection, I think trying to expunge feelings, whatever they be, is not the way to remove the power that the emotion has to disturb us and prevent us from developing relationship and realistic compassion toward the person ... It is more about understanding and exploration - our own thoughts, reactions, attitudes, expectations and responses.

[Hinigyday]

Hi Lunadia,

Perhaps a Layman's view may help. I've contemplated this issue before, do you know the story of the good Samaritan? A man left at the side of the road, ignored by his friends. But another man from a town which he was brought up to hate comes along a picks him up.

I've had some personal experience when watching football. A fan of the opposing team had sat to rest his arthritic legs, despite the heavy rain and the lack of a coat. I saw it from quite a way away and saw no one there to help him or shield him. I came to him and asked if he was alright and stood for a while and shielded him the best I could with my coat. I had every reason to hate the guy, he supported a team that had almost ruined my club and put many good men out of a job. But no one was there to help him.

Take from that what you will. I just feel that when helping someone you dislike they may not want your help. But it maybe you're the only one that can.

Regards,

BigEckk

[gugamotina]

Thanks, all, for your input. Element's post is especially helpful. Perhaps "contempt" is not my best choice of words. My particular struggle deals with my feelings about a former co-worker (whom I supervised at the time) who continually blamed his wife's disability for his frequent absences and tardiness, as well as for his daily processing errors. Eventually it became clear that he was an alcoholic, occasionally physically abusive to his wife. He was found also to be stealing on a daily basis from a nearby newsstand.

I am now able to feel compassion toward the man himself, whose problems apparently led him to those actions; however, I can't get over my distaste of the 'harm', 'unskilfulness' & 'unknowing ignorance' of his actions. Must I?

Lunadia

[realnilkless]

I am now able to feel compassion toward the man himself, whose problems apparently led him to those actions; however, I can't get over my distaste of the 'harm', 'unskilfulness' & 'unknowing ignorance' of his actions. Must I?

thanks Lunadia

again, to answer your question, probably 'no'. it is probably not necessary to get over the sense of 'distaste'

as i see it, the 'distaste' towards those actions is a reflection of the painfulness (harm) such actions can bring. the feeling of 'distaste' is our innate wisdom or conscience that perceives the harmfulness & danger of such actions.

when Buddha taught about how the mind generates suffering & stress, he spoke of two aspects:

(1) how sense experience creates feelings (of pleasantness/comfort and unpleasantness/discomfort);

(2) how feelings create defilements (emotions) such as greed, lust, hatred, anger, confusion, fear, etc

it is the 2nd aspect, i.e., defilements, which are suffering & generate further suffering

the 1st aspect, i.e., feelings, is not in itself suffering

the 'distaste' you experience is a feeling. the 'contempt' & anger that may quickly follow is a defilement

we generally must look deeply within our mind to distinguish between the feeling of distaste and the defilement of contempt that may quickly follow

the Buddhist path is when the unpleasant feeling of 'distaste' occurs, to generate compassion as a response to the unpleasant feeling of 'distaste' (instead of allowing angry contempt to generate)

this is responding to painful things with patience, forbearance & understanding; this is responding to violence with non-violence & gentleness

however, doing this may not change our moral &/or social responsibilities, such as having to take some kind of corrective action against a worker we must supervise.

but it can help us live with less suffering and actually also do our job more skilfulfully because, as a supervisor, we may see many inappropriate behaviours but be expected to respond to them in a professional & understanding way

the scriptures explain:

The Tathagata (The Buddha) has two Dhamma discourses given in sequence. Which two?

'See evil (harmfulness) as evil (harmfulness).' This is the first Dhamma discourse.

'Having seen evil as evil, become disenchanted there, dispassionate there, released there.' This is the second Dhamma discourse.

These are the two Dhamma discourses that the Tathagata — worthy & rightly self-awakened — has given in sequence.

Iti 2.12 You make things worse
when you flare up
at someone who's angry.
Whoever doesn't flare up
at someone who's angry
wins a battle
hard to win.

You live for the good of both
— your own, the other's —
when, knowing the other's provoked,
you mindfully grow calm.
When you work the cure of both
— your own, the other's —
those who think you a fool
know nothing of Dhamma.

SN 11.5 best wishes

element

***

[Qdcqxffs]

What you run into with feelings is not the emotion itself but the clinging that causes suffering. The foundation of The Buddha's teaching, actually the only thing He taught was the Four Noble Truths. Everything else He taught was Skillful Means to communicate these truths.

One of the things The Buddha taught was the concept of annata, i.e. no-self. This is a difficult concept because it is counter intuitive to how we see the world and ourselves. Studying this will help you see that the reason we suffer because of these emotions is due to clinging to them. Our natural instinct is to run from pain that we do not understand or cannot overcome (fight or flight response). The "I" that we create keeps us separated from everything and everyone. "I" or "self" does not exist it is simply made up of the 5 aggregates of clinging which do not stand and cannot stand on their own. If we are made up of that which is transitory, how can we be anything but transitory?

I said all that to say this, I want to run from this pain but when I face it head on and truly experience it and then question the assumptions I have made that give it its power, it dissipates. This is a subtle thing. When we try to control our emotions or even our environment this actually strengthens the "self". The self is all about control. Let go of control. The more we try to control, the more our "self" controls us.

Great book by Rodney Smith.
"Stepping Out of Self-deception"
The Buddha's liberating teaching of no-self

[9rCR9hWL]

I am now able to feel compassion toward the man himself, whose problems apparently led him to those actions; however, I can't get over my distaste of the 'harm', 'unskilfulness' & 'unknowing ignorance' of his actions. Must I?

It really depends on how you're practicing Buddhism, and what getting over this distaste means to you. Can you expand on that?

[pissmanvd]

A little off topic but hello fivebells.
I remember you from a different site long time back.

[Markdogas]

I think it's very hard. It's only natural to get involved in reactions and emotional states and if you are directly involved in things and not just contemplating from a distance then you can hardly avoid becoming enmeshed. I guess the thing is to try to be aware of your reactions. Not beat yourself up or try to deny or negate anything. Just see it happening. And always see things from the other viewpoint also and try to apply the effects of context, the larger view, seeing how everything works in the bigger picture.

If someone harms someone you love, for example, does something terrible to them, how can you not react to that with contempt, anger, distress and so on?

Someone mentioned Maslow's hierarchy of needs somewhere on this forum. Maybe spiritual work sometimes has to come after the basic needs are catered for. Sometimes if you are not an enlightened being you have to do what is necessary in order to survive, and then afterwards, once the emergency is over, you can then work on what had happened.