[melissa]

Personally I've grown to think that superstitions, rites and rituals have mostly very little to do with Buddhism, They're just cultural add-ons.

Absolutely speaking what isn't a cultural add-on?

[gydrorway]

Many years ago I saw a huge colored light moving around and hovering...but alas, no cute little green men......................

And then???

[Thomas12400]

AN 4.174
Kotthita Sutta: To Kotthita
Thanissaro Bhikkhu's note on this sutta is similar to the matter of rites and rituals

See MN 18. As Sn 4.14 points out, the root of the classifications and perceptions of complication is the thought, "I am the thinker." This thought forms the motivation for the questions that Ven. Maha Kotthita is presenting here: the sense of "I am the thinker" can either fear or desire annihilation in the course of Unbinding. Both concerns get in the way of the abandoning of clinging, which is essential for the attainment of Unbinding, which is why the questions should not be asked.

[Bobobsdo]

100% agree.

Frank dear, I realy enjoy our agreements... thanks

Personally l think it's well worth reflecting on what is "superstition",

Yes, of course... and again good point...

About the Junk DNA... the junk issue is in the mind of the ingnorant that do not know how DNA works at a whole... thinking that genes are as isolate units.

[remstaling]

from post #20

As maybe I have made here some understanding of my relationship with Buddhism I do not hold rites and rituals. I am aware about this:

There is the case where a monk is virtuous, but not fashioned of (or: defined by his) virtue.

In the particular case of the tradition I am practicing rites and rituals are severly austere and we do not reley on them. One of the aspects that have made me run away from religions are rites and rituals. We have a very deep emphasis in the 4NT and the 8NP.

And again I can just agree with MN 78.

Thanks Frank,

[Sawyer]

from post #22

[Wmshyrga]

Now, I understand rites and rituals as a way to focus on meditation. They give some sort of significance to what is meant. A preparation for meditation or for a deeper understanding of a teaching beyond rationality

I agree that some ritual can be a tool to focus the mind for various reasons.

However there's always the possibility of too much fascination and attachment to the ritual itself rather than a real understanding of its actual purpose.

[Cinzomzm]

I agree that some ritual can be a tool to focus the mind for various reasons.

That is the way I can take rituals...

However there's always the possibility of too much fascination and attachment to the ritual itself rather than a real understanding of its actual purpose.

Absolutly true Aloka dear,

[freediscountplanrrxip]

If I could be ordained tomorrrow I would happily give up my home and everything in it

Then why don't you check it out?

[Jjfotqse]

If I could be ordained tomorrrow I would happily give up my home and everything in it.

Hi Gerry dear, have a big hug from here... and... just as a friendly shearing with you: "What pevents you for doing this?"

but also Gerry dear,

Sometimes we have a challege in front of us that is the greates teacher we can have and we tend to run away from it. You do not need to be ordained "tomorrow" to happily give up home an everything in it. Also you do not need to thorw out home and everything in it physicaly... you can do in in your own hart and live with that surrounding not beeing it so threatening for you inner pace.

Onece you have give up that in your hart... then go a be ordained...

[sciectotacype17]

Returning to the topic - and superstitions in particular, what do others think about superstitions regarding spirits, demons and other similar entities which seem to stem from cultural beliefs in some Buddhist countries? Do you believe that they have an independent existence from the believer ?

Just curious.

[LsrSRVxR]

from post #33

It is a good question,

I can't tell for shure about that. I do not have any evidence to tell yes they exist or not they do not exist. And I have never been interested in that issues. What I think is that there are some sort of other kind of energies. That there are people that know them and work with them but I am not interested in those things. Even I think that there can be other existencial dimensions with other forms of existence. Why not...? but then... Why yes...?

Anyway I can tell I do not belive in demons and angels as "humanoids" that control people life and can talk with you and drive your life for better or worse.

Also, and correct me if I am wrong, Tibetan Buddhism has a huge support on that kind of aspects. Also, (if I am wrong please correct me) Padmasambava was very a powerfull teacher that had the power of knowing those apsects and also was a skilled Bö practitioner.

So, in short, I think there can be other realms of existence but that is not of my particular interest and I do not support my practice in that kind of belief, but I am always open to possibilities... I do not like to be cloistered in my own opinions.

[qikolax]

and also was a skilled Bö practitioner

Hi Kaarine,

No Padmasambhava wasn't a Bon practitioner. Bon was the shamanistic religion in Tibet before Buddhism was introduced. Padmasambhava was an Indian 'tantric Buddhist master' who went to Tibet in the 9th century.(some Buddhist texts had previously been taken there around 7th century I think) There are stories of Padmasambhava and his students having debating and supernormal power contests with the Bonpos, in which the Bonpos were defeated.
I think at some stage elements of Buddhism were eventually incorporated into Bon, which is still practiced.
I don't know too much about it. I've got a book of very old photos of Tibet taken before the communist take-over..... and one is of a Bon temple with dead human heads with matted hair and gaping mouths hanging from the ceiling. Not a very nice photo !

Regarding beliefs in Tibet about local spirits and deities, this comment and the short article in which it features by 17th Karmapa Urgyen Trinley Dorje is worth looking at :

" I am my own refuge, I am my own protector. Nobody can actually give me protection. I must help myself by clearly understanding what I have to take up and what I have to get rid of. I have to find this out myself and then do it, and that the true practice of Dharma. It is through the practice of Dharma that I create the causes and conditions for my own happiness and for achieving wisdom, compassion, and the ability to help others."

http://www.kagyu.org/ktd/densal/arch.../hhexcerpt.php

[Haremporblape]

and one is of a Bon temple with dead human heads with matted hair and gaping mouths hanging from the ceiling. Not a very nice photo !

The Tibetan Buddhists had a more pleasing sense of aesthetics when using human remains...which they did quite frequently for a variety of objects. URL

[Roker]

Yes I've taken part in ceremonies with skull cups and human thigh-bone trumpets.

I think it was considered a great honor in Tibet to have one's remains used for such purposes (for malas also)

[EspnaConCam]

There are stories of Padmasambhava and his students having debating and supernormal power contests with the Bonpos, in which the Bonpos were defeated.

Yes thats it... thanks Aloka, something told me I was being inaccurate...

I think at some stage elements of Buddhism were eventually incorporated into Bon, which is still practiced.

Yes, I think that above other things, Tibetan Buddhism has that special religuous flavour so caracteristic.

" I am my own refuge, I am my own protector. Nobody can actually give me protection. I must help myself by clearly understanding what I have to take up and what I have to get rid of. I have to find this out myself and then do it, and that the true practice of Dharma. It is through the practice of Dharma that I create the causes and conditions for my own happiness and for achieving wisdom, compassion, and the ability to help others."

Beautifull...

[assonomaf]

In Thailand in the village I know, most if not all houses wil have a "spirit house" in the garden. Some people will put a Buddah image in it, leave food and water, perform rituals and say incantations in Thai that I do not understand.

Ths spirit house in Thailand is a guardian spirit's house. Normally we don't put Buddha image in. The food and water for guardian spirit. This is not Buddhism but local.