[rXpX]

from post #20

[VUzgOhgv]

from post #16

Excellent stuka, very clear...

Now, and because I am not an expert at canon pali suttas, one of the ]http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries.com/img/smilies/hands.gif[/img]

[VottCetaVeivE]

from post #22

Ah, my mistake, Bodhi was indeed the author, and it appeared on Thanissaro's site, accesstoinsight.

[TyncTyncSah]

from post #23

So, the aproach to DO of Bodhi in that link is that about the use of the asava concept as "effluent" and not as pitfall in discernment?

[Blahhhshsh]

Kaarine, dear, might you re-phrase your question, as I am not sure I quite understand what it is you are asking. It seems to me you might have mentioned that you are a native German-speaker, and if I might be able to get it if you say it in German, too.



I scanned over Bodhi's essay a bit more, and found him going on about the "re-birth" of the "stream of consciousness", as if he had never laid eyes on the Buddha's humiliation of Bhikkhu Sati in the Maha Tanhasankhaya Sutta MN 38 (Sati also had claimed that the Buddha taught that consciousness transmigrated from one life to another) at all. Perhaps he had one of his students do the editing of Nanamoli's translation of this sutta in his place....?:


But even death, the Buddha teaches, does not bring us to the end of dukkha, for the life process does not stop with death. When life ends in one place, with one body, the "mental continuum," the individual stream of consciousness, springs up again elsewhere with a new body as its physical support. Thus the cycle goes on over and over — birth, aging, and death — driven by the thirst for more existence.


The Buddha taught none of the above. Curious, how quickly Bodhi apparently forgets his own assessment, just two paragraphs earlier, of the Buddha's dismissal of the concerns of "right view that is defiled", the speculative theological and metaphysical worldviews that preceded Him:



This fact of dukkha, the Buddha says, is the only real spiritual problem. The other problems — the theological and metaphysical questions that have taunted religious thinkers through the centuries — he gently waves aside as "matters not tending to liberation." What he teaches, he says, is just suffering and the ending of suffering, dukkha and its cessation.


It is rather illuminating to look at Bodhi's criticism of Nanavira's exposition of paticcasamuppada, in light of Mettiko Bhiokkhu's analysis of the two. Bodhi concerns himself primarily with "right view with asavas" and sees it as the highest thing": he sees "dukkha" as equating "round of reincarnations/re-births", and sees the ultimate goal of the Buddha's teachings as being annihilation, as "hopping off that round", while the Buddha clearly deleneates what "duhhka" is (not getting what one wants, getting what one doesn't want, etc), and declares, as Bodhi even admits above, that "What he teaches, he says, is just suffering and the ending of suffering, dukkha and its cessation." This, the Buddha's concern with dukkha and its extinguishment, is the concern of "Noble Right View".

[flnastyax]

Kaarine, dear, might you re-phrase your question, as I am not sure I quite understand what it is you are asking. It seems to me you might have mentioned that you are a native German-speaker, and if I might be able to get it if you say it in German, too.

So sorry of my lack of fluent english. No, I am not a native German sepaker. My grandmother was. So I learnt a little of German when a child but I have forgoten much of it.

Anyway, thanks for answering...

I will try to re-phrase my question:

Does the aproach of Bikkhu Bodhi to Right View (given in the ]discernment, as the Buddha taught?[/i]

Now,

It is rather illuminating to look at Bodhi's criticism of Nanavira's exposition of paticcasamuppada, in light of Mettiko Bhiokkhu's analysis of the two. Bodhi concerns himself primarily with "right view with asavas" and sees it as the highest thing": he sees "dukkha" as equating "round of reincarnations/re-births", and sees the ultimate goal of the Buddha's teachings as being annihilation, as "hopping off that round", while the Buddha clearly deleneates what "duhhka" is (not getting what one wants, getting what one doesn't want, etc), and...

but then...

declares, as Bodhi even admits above, that "What he teaches, he says, is just suffering and the ending of suffering, dukkha and its cessation." This, the Buddha's concern with dukkha and its extinguishment, is the concern of "Noble Right View".

So, does Bikkhu Bodhi finaly understands the essence of a Noble Right View"?

[AutoCadPhotoSHOP]

What he teaches, he says, is just suffering and the ending of suffering, dukkha and its cessation.

This is the "Way" of a "noble right view" so to understand the "Noble Right View" given by what the Buddha experienced.

[textarchive]

Kaarine Alejandra #9: Buddha also did not teach that we have an innate "Buddha Nature".

This is surprising to me - not because I believed it was so but because I recall discussions saying exactly this. Could you please provide references that would clear up what Buddha did teach in regards to what, if anything, is innate for us humans?

BTW, I have trouble with the idea that a serial rapist has Buddha nature.

.

Hi Plogsties, if you want to continue exploring the idea of 'Buddha Nature' there's a thread here about its origins, which can be added to:



http://www.buddhismwithoutboundaries...ic=2815&page=0

[SantaClaus]

If you wish to understand paticcasamuppada as the Buddha taught it, go to Phra P. A Payutto's analysis at http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/coarise5.htm

Thank you very much. I will do so and am very interested in this.

No I do not know anything of Chogyam Trungpa's life. The book was recommended to me by a Sangha member of the temple I visit, Kagyu lineage, when this person heard I was interested in Buddhist psychology. Someone else commented briefly that he had a controversial life and some really enjoy his view and others feel he has transgressed the boundaries ... they gave me no examples though and just ended there. At the time I felt it was best not to be inquisitive and left it.

Reply to Kaarine Alejandra - thank you for this information and the links. I will enjoy reading them in preparation for the experience however know it will be as it is and individual to what ever occurs for me so no real preparation can occur. What you write about in terms of silence sounds wonderful and I am very much looking forward to it, I love peace and silence and enjoy being up at night as there is more of this presence around then.

Meditation is such a simple and effective method that can help us to make sense of our own personal psychology through enhanced observation and reflection. That the Buddhist teachers have also studied similarities among people and can comment on the commonalities of the mind and it's tendencies I think is also of great benefit to our learning about the mind and can raise awareness that then offers an opportunity to observe these things operating if not noticed before. I am interested in practitioners here sharing whether these commonalities as written, once shared by these meditation masters, are recognised in their own practice, and what they are learning about the nature of mind in general and how this relates to psychology within their meditaton / mindfulness practice. Feel free to share these not in relation to the writings as well, if they do not activate specific comment for you.

[HedoShoodovex]

[quote=Kaarine Alejandra #26: ]
Does the aproach of Bikkhu Bodhi to Right View (given in the ]

The Buddha describes three paths in the Maha Cattarisaka Sutta; the path of wrong view, the path of right view with defilements (asavas), and the Noble Path of right view without asavas. What he calls RVWA is actually a collection of various superstitions and speculative views which, when held to, would lead one toward skillful action (he also delineates this in MN 60). But his own Noble Right View is rooted entirely in discernment, and when he describes what this view is, he uses the word "discernment" several times. The RVWA is concerned with gaining a "higher birth", i.e., reincarnation. This is what Bodhi concerns himself with, and holds to be the highest, ultimate goal of Buddhist practice. The quenching of misery he sees as being secondary, a small matter. In this respect, he has the Buddhadhamma entirely backwards.

So, does Bikkhu Bodhi finaly understands the essence of a Noble Right View"?

I would say, No, not at all. He sees it through a lens of superstition, of "right view with asavas", and thus for him it is just a hybrid eternalist/annihilationist reincarnation strategy.

[yxn2dC07]

No I do not know anything of Chogyam Trungpa's life. The book was recommended to me by a Sangha member of the temple I visit, Kagyu lineage, when this person heard I was interested in Buddhist psychology. Someone else commented briefly that he had a controversial life and some really enjoy his view and others feel he has transgressed the boundaries ... they gave me no examples though and just ended there. At the time I felt it was best not to be inquisitive and left it.

My impression of Chogyam Trungpa is that he waxed romantic and verbosely about bits and pieces of the Dhamma, largely cherry-picking it, and made no attempt to walk the talk.

[CaseyFan]

No I do not know anything of Chogyam Trungpa's life

Hi Blue,

I met Chogyam Trungpa when I was very young. However I'm not prepared to go into more detail publicly.

He led a very controversial life, I suggest you do some research on him.

Always investigate thoroughly - in general.

[Emalodoulouts]

My impression of Chogyam Trungpa is that he waxed romantic and verbosely about bits and pieces of the Dhamma, largely cherry-picking it, and made no attempt to walk the talk.

If ever anyone walked the talk, it was Chogyam. Buddhism isn't about "being good". It's about being clear. Chogyam was clear, and the Dharma he taught was like a crystal bell. Your dislike of Tibetan Buddhism is showing again.

[Adollobdeb]

It's about being clear.

I do not know much about Chogyam Trungpa so I can't tell. I read his "Cutting Thorugh Spiritual Materialism and there I have found good glimpses and warnings about that same issue, but the statement of being clear is for shure a core aspect of Righ View...

[Oxzzlvpg]

from post #33

Hmm. He was an alcoholic, however. I met him when he was experimenting with drugs (and so was I) and he was surrounded by empty alcohol bottles. I'm not prepared to say more, other than in my view he was tortured and unhappy in different ways and had no control over his passion for women.

I mean sure he could definately transmit something, but psychic powers don't mean someone is enlightened. I always regarded him as my first teacher but I tend to think that this was partly romanticism on my part. Certainly the prediction he made to me the last time I saw him never came true.

[fluistulkn]

stuka #31:
My impression of Chogyam Trungpa is that he waxed romantic and verbosely about bits and pieces of the Dhamma, largely cherry-picking it, and made no attempt to walk the talk.

If ever anyone walked the talk, it was Chogyam. Buddhism isn't about "being good". It's about being clear. Chogyam was clear, and the Dharma he taught was like a crystal bell. Your dislike of Tibetan Buddhism is showing again.

Oh, it must be all an anti-tibetan-religion bias, I see. The drinking, the philandering, sexual predation on his students and cheating on his wife, the paranoia and paramilitary crap, yes that was all "walking the talk", I forgot all about how the Buddha really taught all that...

Am I going to be accused of working for the Chinese government next? How about we kindly dispense with the personal attacks, Pink?

Sheeesh....

[Siuchingach]

from post #35

Yes Aloka... our founder, Taizan Maetzumi Roshi, was also an alcoholic. His teachings are truthfull and encouraging. Very strict he develop the hablilty to join Rinzai and Soto traditions. Very strict in zazen poture.

I want to share this personal opinion: I feel comfortable and confident with a teacher or an ancestor that has gone through hard moments and has overcome them in some way that with somebody that has not know hard moments.

[Tveabuti]

Am I going to be accused of working for the Chinese government next?

No way stuka,

[NETvoyne]

But his own Noble Right View is rooted entirely in discernment, and when he describes what this view is, he uses the word "discernment" several times.

And this is what makes sense to me about the Noble Right View issue stuka dear,

Is there anything else for a genuine and direct practice than that of "Discernment"?

The quenching of misery he sees as being secondary, a small matter.

No, the quenching of misery is the paramount commitment when the practice of Buddhims comes to terms.

[leadmoffer]

I feel comfortable and confident with a teacher or an ancestor that has gone through hard moments and has overcome them in some way that with somebody that has not know hard moments.

OK, well I'm a qualified (school)teacher Kaarine. and I've experienced many things in my life -how about believing what I'm telling you even though I'm not a famous 'spiritual' teacher?