[Niiinioa]

thanks Dave

about jhana, imo, it is not something that is part of the essence of Buddha-Dhamma. it is certainly a factor of the path but its role as a path factor is merely to indicate the path is progressing. (further, the 4th jhana is ideal for final insight meditation). unlike Hindu yoga, where jhana is often regarded as the end culmininating is 'self realisation', jhana in Buddhism does not hold a similar place

for example, the stream-enterer (that has not entered jhana) is regarded as a Noble Being, unlike one with some kind of jhana that has no realisation of anatta (not-self). further, for the pure mind that has actually experienced jhana, it regards jhana as nothing special; in fact, it regards the bliss of jhana as disturbing & unsatisfactory

Ajahn Brahm validity questions MN 26, where the Buddha-To-Be supposedly enters the 7th & 8th jhanas without entering the 1st. of course, such questioning can only be based on believing MN 36 that reports the Buddha-To-Be entered the 1st jhana as a child. these suttas appear to be in conflict, as Brahm points out. but then, which one is correct??? further, how could the the Buddha-To-Be know jhana was the path to enlightenment? there is nothing in the five factors of 1st jhana that intrinsically indicates it is the path to enlightenment. with the factors of the lower jhana jhanas that are present, Dependent Origination, the dhamma of enlightenment, is not readily discerned or examinable

what i am saying is there is probably little evidence Buddha discovered jhana, as the Brahm-Sujato sect propose. i trust there must be references in the suttas of non-Buddhist sects experiencing some kind of 'jhana' . many meditators believe they enter jhana, due to experiencing some rapture, when they do not.

***

upon reflection, if considering the traditional stories, the young Prince was sitting under the rose apple tree & observing how the various animals (snakes, frogs, worms, birds, etc) devoured eachother. at that time, his mind must have entered into a state of shock, disenchantment, dispassion & let go. by doing so, the young prince's mind reached the 1st jhana

thus, although MN 36 specificially mentions the 1st jhana, it was probably the cause of entering jhana, i.e., disenchantment, that the Buddha-To-Be realised was the path the enlightenment

however, the Brahm-Sujato sect's emphasis on the bliss of jhana is certainly another excellent example of the Hinduisation of Buddhism, given Buddha labeled the various jhanas as Godly & Heavenly states

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in short, it seems Buddha probably discovered a different kind of jhana, a jhana that has its foundation in letting go (rather than a foundation in craving to become via suppression)

buddha taught:

And what is the faculty of concentration? There is the case where a monk, a noble disciple, making it his object to let go/relinquish (vossaga), attains concentration, attains singleness of mind.

SN 48.9 & 10 This holy life is lived
for the abandoning of becoming.

Whatever brahmans or contemplatives say that liberation from becoming is by means of becoming, all of them are not released from becoming, I say.

Ud 3.10 regards