[finnmontserrat]

I find that most traditional forms of meditation can informatively be put under scrutiny with this in mind. Kasina disc & various formless meditations, such as the arupas - as well as perception-feeling-cessation - are clear candidates.

This line of inquiry can also result in some interesting conclusions with respect to jhana as the Buddha's discovery, rather than a common practice well known at the time. Since the Buddha rejected two popular formless attainments, and recalled a childhood experience, it is worth considering that the progression of jhana factors might be designed by the Buddha himself, and that they might not resemble the absorption and sense-less-ness with which they are often associated...

[Niiinioa]

thanks Dave

about jhana, imo, it is not something that is part of the essence of Buddha-Dhamma. it is certainly a factor of the path but its role as a path factor is merely to indicate the path is progressing. (further, the 4th jhana is ideal for final insight meditation). unlike Hindu yoga, where jhana is often regarded as the end culmininating is 'self realisation', jhana in Buddhism does not hold a similar place

for example, the stream-enterer (that has not entered jhana) is regarded as a Noble Being, unlike one with some kind of jhana that has no realisation of anatta (not-self). further, for the pure mind that has actually experienced jhana, it regards jhana as nothing special; in fact, it regards the bliss of jhana as disturbing & unsatisfactory

Ajahn Brahm validity questions MN 26, where the Buddha-To-Be supposedly enters the 7th & 8th jhanas without entering the 1st. of course, such questioning can only be based on believing MN 36 that reports the Buddha-To-Be entered the 1st jhana as a child. these suttas appear to be in conflict, as Brahm points out. but then, which one is correct??? further, how could the the Buddha-To-Be know jhana was the path to enlightenment? there is nothing in the five factors of 1st jhana that intrinsically indicates it is the path to enlightenment. with the factors of the lower jhana jhanas that are present, Dependent Origination, the dhamma of enlightenment, is not readily discerned or examinable

what i am saying is there is probably little evidence Buddha discovered jhana, as the Brahm-Sujato sect propose. i trust there must be references in the suttas of non-Buddhist sects experiencing some kind of 'jhana' . many meditators believe they enter jhana, due to experiencing some rapture, when they do not.

***

upon reflection, if considering the traditional stories, the young Prince was sitting under the rose apple tree & observing how the various animals (snakes, frogs, worms, birds, etc) devoured eachother. at that time, his mind must have entered into a state of shock, disenchantment, dispassion & let go. by doing so, the young prince's mind reached the 1st jhana

thus, although MN 36 specificially mentions the 1st jhana, it was probably the cause of entering jhana, i.e., disenchantment, that the Buddha-To-Be realised was the path the enlightenment

however, the Brahm-Sujato sect's emphasis on the bliss of jhana is certainly another excellent example of the Hinduisation of Buddhism, given Buddha labeled the various jhanas as Godly & Heavenly states

***

in short, it seems Buddha probably discovered a different kind of jhana, a jhana that has its foundation in letting go (rather than a foundation in craving to become via suppression)

buddha taught:

And what is the faculty of concentration? There is the case where a monk, a noble disciple, making it his object to let go/relinquish (vossaga), attains concentration, attains singleness of mind.

SN 48.9 & 10 This holy life is lived
for the abandoning of becoming.

Whatever brahmans or contemplatives say that liberation from becoming is by means of becoming, all of them are not released from becoming, I say.

Ud 3.10 regards

[toreesi]

The Nikayas reflect a cross-pollination of brahamical meditation techniques alongside the jhanas, which are an essential aspect of sammasamadhi. Citations are therefore bound to reflect this, so caution is warranted.

Unlike the formless attainments, the jhanas can be characterized by six-sense satisampajanna, the absence of the hindrances, and the development of the seven factors of enlightenment. On this view, anapanasati is the vitakka-vicara of first jhana and is the favored means by which to develop these factors.

This is wholly opposed to the idea that meditation involves single-pointed focus, reduced-sense concentration, and the like. These may provide a wide range of benefits, but it's the sort of meditation which the Bodhisatta rejected.

[TobaccoNUE]

The Nikayas reflect a cross-pollination of brahamical meditation techniques alongside the jhanas, which are an essential aspect of sammasamadhi.

thanks Dave

my impression of the Nikaya is, it appears, for anything to be "samma", it must be based in right view

Unlike the formless attainments, the jhanas can be characterized by...satisampajanna, the absence of the hindrances, and the development of the seven factors of enlightenment

what about this:

And how is the mind said to be internally positioned [stuck internally]?

There is the case where a monk, quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities, enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. His consciousness follows the drift of the rapture & pleasure born of withdrawal, is tied to... chained... fettered & joined to the attraction of the rapture & pleasure born of withdrawal.

MN 138

[DrazAdwamoi]

The four jhanas form an essential relay along the gradual training, coming between addressing the hindrances and the elimination of the asavas.

MN 66

"Now, there is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is called renunciation-pleasure, seclusion-pleasure, calm-pleasure, self-awakening-pleasure. And of this pleasure I say that it is to be cultivated, to be developed, to be pursued, that it is not to be feared. ---

Now, MN 117's 'singleness of mind' is possible in any state which has discarded the five hindrances. For example, AN 4.12 Sīla Sutta:

If while he is walking, standing, sitting, or reclining, a monk is free from greed and ill will, from sloth and torpor, from restlessness and worry, and has discarded doubt, then his will has become strong and impregnable; his mindfulness is alert and unclouded; his body is calm and unexcited; his mind is concentrated and collected (samāhitaṃ cittaṃ ekaggaṃ). Also, MN 127 describes the expansive liberation of mind (mahaggatā cetovimutti), which is a synonym for the mastery of jhāna, as follows:

And what, householder, is the expansive liberation of mind? Here a monk abides resolved upon an area the size of the root of one tree, pervading it as expansive: this is called the expansive liberation of mind. Here a monk abides resolved upon an area the size of the roots of two or three trees, pervading it as expansive: this too is called the expansive liberation of mind. Here a monk abides resolved upon an area the size of one village, pervading it as expansive ... an area the size of two or three villages... an area the size of one major kingdom... an area the size of two or three major kingdoms... an area the size of the earth bounded by the ocean, pervading it as expansive: this too is called the expansive liberation of mind. So we can see how greatly this differs from singleminded concentration techniques, such as kasina disc meditation. There are late Anguttara Nikaya Suttas which depict the process of incorporation here, for example AN 10.29.

[globjgtyf]

The wider field of textual criticism with respect to the Nikayas is probably worth mentioning here in sidebar, given that it is not scholastically acceptable to see the whole of the Five Nikayas as verbatim recordings. Some phrases probably exist as such, but for example we know that the word for brahmin in the Pali prakrit was 'bahmin', which shows that the 'r' was added during the recitation process to keep the term up to date.

This shows the long process of massaging which the Nikayas have gone through, a process which seems to have been interrupted, probably the first time it was written down. It becomes possible to highlight certain aspects, and sometimes certain passages and phrases, as potentially 'early' or 'late' with respect to this open period.

It isn't conclusive, certainly, but the general trends make a blanket acceptance of the Canon in toto wholly untenable with respect to a search for buddhavacana. The material is there - nothing was ever knowingly deleted, despite the rather free approach to additions - it simply takes a careful, patchwork-free approach, it seems to me. With the gradual training as a template, the practice emerges quite clearly, cf. MN 125.

In any event, this open period allowed for this kind of cross-pollination. The Marks of a Great Man are noteworthy in this connection, as well.