[WaicurtaitfuT]

You havent watched WRC for a while have you

[Narus63]

Well Christian Horner seems to have decided who's to blame for his cars' fall from domination:

"In the race Seb was really hanging on and doing a really strong job.
"He managed to hold on to Jenson (Button) early on in the race, but then the Ferrraris were just too quick on the straights for us.
"We were just powerless to defend, but Sebastian did nothing wrong. He drove as hard as he could.

TRANSLATION: He was hanging on to a tow as best as he could. That was our only hope of getting a bit of straightline speed, as the Renault engine was palpably not up to the job.
The Ferraris were just too quick on the straights for us, because they aren't lumped with dodgy Renault engines. We are.
"We were just powerless" = Exactly

I wonder how Horner accounts for the fact that Raikonnen and D'Ambrosio had the fastest speeds through the speed trap, and their Renault engines managed to finish the race too!

[mpegdvdclip]

I wonder how Horner accounts for the fact that Raikonnen and D'Ambrosio had the fastest speeds through the speed trap, and their Renault engines managed to finish the race too!

I would very much like to know what the RBR engineers think of that issue.

[ElenaEvgeevnaa]

The Red Bull is not very good this year, simple as that. They lack straightline speed, they lack qualifying pace, their aero is compromised because of the new rules and still they win three races and so far lead the WCC. It won't last, but is still a mighty effort.

[irrawnWab]

It has been obvious for the last couple of seasons that the design philosophy of the Red Bull car is about maximising downforce whilst sacrificing top speed. Also mechanical traction is not thier strong suit either (Adrian Newey is an aerodynamicist after all, not a mechanical engineer) so at tracks like Spa and Monza where top speed is key and downforce levels are generally lower the Red Bull car's key weakness is on display for all to see. However, Spa and Monza are exceptions, rather than the rule, I think at the next round we will see Red Bull right up at the sharp end and perhaps see Ferrari chasing McLaren, Red Bull & Lotus as we saw in Hungary, after all, it is said that Singapore is an absolute maxiumum downforce track (on a par with Monaco). The fact that Red Bull are merely competitive rather than dominant isnt reason to think that they are a spent force, its more that as loopholes are closed in the rule book it becomes increasingly difficult to dominate, its as simple as that.

[Jerwittdergut]

I wonder how Horner accounts for the fact that Raikonnen and D'Ambrosio had the fastest speeds through the speed trap, and their Renault engines managed to finish the race too!

I would very much like to know what the RBR engineers think of that issue.

Top speed isn't everything, despite Renault weaker on power.

Lotus ran low downforce for greater top speed whereas RBR, went for a shorter gearing for greater acceleration off the corners - which they did last year and still won the race.

Slow end-of-straight speeds are not necessarily a defining disadvantage at Monza - so long as you are coming onto those straights faster than the others, as Vettel was last year. It's the speed profile through the entire straight that is much more important than the headline numbers through the speed trap. Kimi Raikkonen for example complained after the race that he was unable to defend because he was slow on the pit straight, yet a look at the speed trap figures from the end of the straight showed the Lotus to be the fastest of all.

What he was referring to was how slow he was onto and into the first part of the straight because his very low-downforce set up had made him slow through the preceding Parabolica. The high end of straight speeds of that set up weren't even overcoming how much time had been lost by entering the straight so much slower. Red Bull opted for the opposite approach, gaining as much time as possible through the turns to get onto the straights quicker. But unlike last year, the Red Bull had no corner speed advantage over the others.

Why Vettel had to pay the penalty | Features & Experts | Sky Sports Formula 1 Magnetti Marelli modified their alternator after Valencia but it seems Newey's uncompromising philosophy is giving the alternator and teams grief.

[glazgoR@]

It has been obvious for the last couple of seasons that the design philosophy of the Red Bull car is about maximising downforce whilst sacrificing top speed. Also mechanical traction is not thier strong suit either (Adrian Newey is an aerodynamicist after all, not a mechanical engineer) so at tracks like Spa and Monza where top speed is key and downforce levels are generally lower the Red Bull car's key weakness is on display for all to see. However, Spa and Monza are exceptions, rather than the rule, I think at the next round we will see Red Bull right up at the sharp end and perhaps see Ferrari chasing McLaren, Red Bull & Lotus as we saw in Hungary, after all, it is said that Singapore is an absolute maxiumum downforce track (on a par with Monaco). The fact that Red Bull are merely competitive rather than dominant isnt reason to think that they are a spent force, its more that as loopholes are closed in the rule book it becomes increasingly difficult to dominate, its as simple as that.

Vettel had competitive race pace in Spa. Arguably the quicker car and perhaps would have won the race had he had qualified higher up the grid.

I don't fully agree that RBR lacks mechanical grip. Equal in race pace in Australia; they won in Monaco and perhaps would have won the Canadian GP if they had gone for 2 stopper.

[DoctorDulitlBest]

The Red Bull is not very good this year, simple as that. They lack straightline speed, they lack qualifying pace, their aero is compromised because of the new rules and still they win three races and so far lead the WCC. It won't last, but is still a mighty effort.

Overall, Red Bull has been the best car of the year. Obviously not by as much as last year, but still. Their racepace is awesome.
There is nothing wrong with that car.

Vettel had competitive race pace in Spa. Arguably the quicker car and perhaps would have won the race had he had qualified higher up the grid.

I don't fully agree that RBR lacks mechanical grip. Equal in race pace in Australia; they won in Monaco and perhaps would have won the Canadian GP if they had gone for 2 stopper.

Yep.

[topbonusescod]

The Red Bull is not very good this year, simple as that. They lack straightline speed, they lack qualifying pace, their aero is compromised because of the new rules and still they win three races and so far lead the WCC. It won't last, but is still a mighty effort.

Add to that the loss of the engine mapping that worked along with the aero and you're spot on.

[Erawise]

Overall, Red Bull has been the best car of the year. Obviously not by as much as last year, but still. Their racepace is awesome.

But not good in quali trim.

Many argue McLaren as the better car and I would agree because it is better over a GP weekend than RBR. Better in quali than RBR and competitive/race winning pace.

To a great extent I disagree that RBR's pace as "awesome". Only in Valencia they were regarded as having "awesome" pace with full exploitation of EBD concept.

But they now don't have that advantage of messing with trick engine maps.

I'd say the RBR's race pace is about 0.3s quicker which is marginal. It will come down to track/quali position, pit strategy, traffic, in and out laps, etc.

[wpFWNoIt]

To b@stardize a line from Mark Twain:

The report of their death is greatly exaggerated.

[accotMask17]

But not good in quali trim.

Many argue McLaren as the better car and I would agree because it is better over a GP weekend than RBR. Better in quali than RBR and competitive/race winning pace.

To a great extent I disagree that RBR's pace as "awesome". Only in Valencia they were regarded as having "awesome" pace with full exploitation of EBD concept.

But they now don't have that advantage of messing with trick engine maps.

I'd say the RBR's race pace is about 0.3s quicker which is marginal. It will come down to track/quali position, pit strategy, traffic, in and out laps, etc.

I think that McLaren is the fastest car this year, but it took some time for the team to explore their advantage. But they are the best in Saturday and at least equal to Ferrari and Red Bull in Sunday.