[I9dydJrX]

I think they'd already pulled out through lack of money - and a disagreement between MSD/Hyundai.....

.....which resulted in the fine.

I agree

[buchmausar]

Surley the actions of the last 2 WRC rallies in Australia and France have taken the sport into disrepute?

Latvala should have won in Australia but Malcolm Wilson made Hirvonen win, a move which took him a step closer to being a 'paper champion' after takeing a 'paper win'.

Then today Malcolm Wilson made JML take out a 2 minuete penaly for being early, penanlties are for people who break the rules, and Malcolm Wilson effectively 'forced' JML to break the rules.

All of this is giving Mikko Hirvonen a better advantage of the championship win, the point of the championship is that the fastest driver wins, so if a driver with the more points in a team is slower than the 2nd driver, it should stay that way.

[Appeselve]

Team orders are still legal, so while what happened wasn't perfect, it was perfectly acceptable.
All teams have used them down the years; Lancia, Citroen, Subaru, Mitsubishi, etc

While I like Mikko, who is a good driver, but not a No1 - I hope either of the Sebs win the WRC....they've actually gone out to win events.

[xquFzpNw]

Surley the actions of the last 2 WRC rallies in Australia and France have taken the sport into disrepute?

Latvala should have won in Australia but Malcolm Wilson made Hirvonen win, a move which took him a step closer to being a 'paper champion' after takeing a 'paper win'.

Then today Malcolm Wilson made JML take out a 2 minuete penaly for being early, penanlties are for people who break the rules, and Malcolm Wilson effectively 'forced' JML to break the rules.

All of this is giving Mikko Hirvonen a better advantage of the championship win, the point of the championship is that the fastest driver wins, so if a driver with the more points in a team is slower than the 2nd driver, it should stay that way.

I think that taking those road penalties is much more reasonable choice than hanging around the stage a few tens of minutes or so..

[WordofViagra]

Team orders are still legal, so while what happened wasn't perfect, it was perfectly acceptable.

I couldn't agree more. Also, rules banning team orders are always impossible to implement.

[TeksPaisimi]

I couldn't agree more. Also, rules banning team orders are always impossible to implement.

A way to minimise the effect of team orders is to award a proportion of the championship points on any event for each stage won. This would have minimised the benefit to any driver who is 'allowed' a win on the final day / stage. I haven't thought through the ramifications, but if, as our Hellenic friend pointed out, Ogier was sandbagging Sordo then he would have been giving up points by not trying to win every stage he could.

[WordofViagra]

A way to minimise the effect of team orders is to award a proportion of the championship points on any event for each stage won. This would have minimised the benefit to any driver who is 'allowed' a win on the final day / stage. I haven't thought through the ramifications, but if, as our Hellenic friend pointed out, Ogier was sandbagging Sordo then he would have been giving up points by not trying to win every stage he could.

The main ramification of such an idea, as far as I'm concerned, is to over-complicate matters.

[TeksPaisimi]

True, but it would act against unworthy wins

[Loovikeillilen]

Oportunity to win without taking first place in every stage (or maybe in any stage at all, remember Gronholm victory in Cyprus 2002) is a part of the sport. Trying to minimize effect of team orders in that way would take out one of the key factors of rallying - importance of surviving.

[NumsAmenniams]

Stage wins

Loeb 55
Latvala 51
Ogier 49
Hirvonen 32 (13 of those around 10kms from his house)

paper champ is an understatement.

[Loovikeillilen]

Well, rallying is not only about winning stages.

[NumsAmenniams]

of course is not but still the reason we like it is speed...not cruising.

Hirvonen will deserve the title if he gets it since he hasn't done anything illegal... but i doubt in the future when we talk about rally champions we will include his name in it. Burns for example i think was remembered more about his 1999 and 2000 season rather than his 1 win title in 2001.

As i said...there is no way for Hirvonen to win the title this year with his attitude...the only way he does that is if he collects it from the garbage.

[drycleden]

I'd say that if Hirvonen wins the 2011 championship, it would be more a matter of the others losing it than he winning it.

[Loovikeillilen]

You can not too much cruise in rally. Someone faster will simply beat you Ofcourse it is a theoretical oportunity that all crews can go on 50 km/h and wait untill someone crashes out, but in this game the speed is required naturally. Without any rules.

[Lapsiks]

Oportunity to win without taking first place in every stage (or maybe in any stage at all, remember Gronholm victory in Cyprus 2002) is a part of the sport. Trying to minimize effect of team orders in that way would take out one of the key factors of rallying - importance of surviving.

Or JML last year in new zealand?

You can not too much cruise in rally. Someone faster will simply beat you Ofcourse it is a theoretical oportunity that all crews can go on 50 km/h and wait untill someone crashes out, but in this game the speed is required naturally. Without any rules.

That brings us back to the similarities of the 2007(?) F1 season. Just like Alonso/Hamilton, (the two sebs) I think Ogier would prefer raikkonen(Mikko) to win rather the championship rather than his team mate (If you get what I mean)

[Loovikeillilen]

That brings us back to the similarities of the 2007(?) F1 season. Just like Alonso/Hamilton, (the two sebs) I think Ogier would prefer raikkonen(Mikko) to win rather the championship rather than his team mate (If you get what I mean)

Interesting idea Maybe. But I say that he is Citroen driver at least for the next two WRC rallies.