Which rally should they add to the WRC-calendar? - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**STYWOMBORGOSY** · 08-09-2012, 05:46 AM

To give you guys a feeling of how small time and invisible rally is in America in general and in California in particular, the state is long, and like many real long conutries the North and the South are considered distant strange places with nothing in common.
In "Northern" California, in the San Francisco area according to wilipedia: The city is also the financial and cultural hub of the larger San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland metropolitan area, with a population of 7.4 million. Last weekend a regional event was just held and there were a total of 12 entries: Reg 1 Results It was a friend who won in a very modest Golf MkII, another friend who was second on my own suspension.

Southern California , again from wiki The Census Bureau also defines a wider region based on commuting patterns, the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside Combined Statistical Area (CSA), more commonly known as the Greater Los Angeles Area, with an estimated population of 17,786,419.[4 17.7 million..
Typically they might have 20-maybe 30 entries. Most extremely modest levels of prep...many near stock.

There is simply no the numbers of people in the sport at even the most rudimentary level to support more than just fun events...

The guy above is right, Canada, especially the nearer to "New France" aka Quebec you get, they better the event, and there are even spectators at 'Baie de Chaleurs" , but as much as I enjoyed canadian events when i did them, it is dreaming to think the events could ratchet up and cooperate..and pull off a real event with 100-180 entries.

**Galsteinbok** · 08-09-2012, 06:02 AM

More particularly I think any North American event would need to be in the east, making transport much easier. A west coast event would be a big logistical move like Australia, New Zealand, or Japan. As much as I'd like to see the WRC at an event I can get to easily like Sno*Drift - run in late January - Canada is probably the better bet. Guess I'd need to take more days off work, then.

If there was a way to incorporate it into a long event like Targa Newfoundland it could be even more unique.

**Mediconlinee** · 08-09-2012, 06:27 AM

Someone posted a video link to a tarmac rally in Norway, unfortunately the video title was in Norwegian so I cant remember the name

Really nice looking roads there, Monte style mountains, frozen lakes and the like. May have been Grondal driving...?

**DoctorNiCYDEn** · 08-09-2012, 06:46 AM

They shouldn't be adding any events to the WRC where the sport is not strong and has no history of running top level events. The WRC is the pinnacle of our sport and ought reflect the culture we, who are involved in the sport, have grown and nutured for decades.

**AnypecekceS** · 08-09-2012, 07:04 AM

When Loeb retires, will the Alsace region still be intetested in a WRC round? I wonder...

**Xodvbooj** · 08-09-2012, 07:06 AM

... I want to say "Sliven", because I'm from here and there are great tarmac stages around which has been major part of the famous european rally "Zlatni" in 80's and 90's...

Rally Sliven is definitely the one worth being added to the WRC - calendar.
It's an event unique on its own.

The vid below says it all...

**STYWOMBORGOSY** · 08-09-2012, 07:23 AM

More particularly I think any North American event would need to be in the east, making transport much easier. A west coast event would be a big logistical move like Australia, New Zealand, or Japan. As much as I'd like to see the WRC at an event I can get to easily like Sno*Drift - run in late January - Canada is probably the better bet. Guess I'd need to take more days off work, then.

If there was a way to incorporate it into a long event like Targa Newfoundland it could be even more unique.

Tavarich Gregorij, Targa Newfie-land looks like fun but the reality is it is just a well promoted play time for old farts with silly shiney cars..
A friend and customer of mine Martin Walter from up in Ontario took his old pounded to death for3-4 seasons gravel rally Nissan 240 Nissan, stock JDM SR20DET engine and box, Sooper Bitchin JVAB gravel Söspendös,

and some random asphalt tires, and nearly won it.

It is somewhat akin to the Alcan 5000 which has run from here in Sleezattle up to the Arctic Sea and then to Anchorage winter and summer alternating years..

It is basically a drive in pretty countryside. And Newfie+land is pretty and the people I have met unusually friendly, and that counts highly in my book, but thereäs not the roads, the facilities, the population to support even a Canadian Championship Rally much less anything more.

Tall Pines would be closer, better terrain, but not the organisational structure-----although the Canajians can certainly do it easier with just CARS than USAians could with 4 distinct organisations who cannot speak much less cooperate together.

**jurnalkduo** · 08-09-2012, 11:43 AM

They shouldn't be adding any events to the WRC where the sport is not strong and has no history of running top level events. The WRC is the pinnacle of our sport and ought reflect the culture we, who are involved in the sport, have grown and nutured for decades.

+1

**suiviouse** · 08-09-2012, 11:59 AM

A few ideas:

1) Rally America, which could be based in Denver. Denver is a major urban area, but the beauty of it is that the city is hard up agaisnt the Rocky Mountains. If it was run at the right time of year, it could be a combination tarmac-gravel-snow event, which I think would become very popular very quickly.

2) Baltic Rally, which seems like a popular idea. I'm suggesting it here because one of the original proposals for Rally Argentina this year was an "endurance" even, starting in Argentina, crossing Paraguay and entering Brazil. The idea never came to fruition, but it could be applied to a rally in the Baltic states, starting in Vilnius and ending in Tallinn, which are only about 500km apart. Yes, the liasion stages would be long, but it could be a four-day endurance event. Again, I think it would be popular.

3) Revive Rally Japan, because the series needs more manufacturer support.

4) Revive Rally Indonesia, which was a fantastic event, even if it was only run twice before the East Timor crisis made the event unmanageable and inappropriate. Alternatively, something else in South-East Asia could be good. Maybe a Rally of Thailand?

**STYWOMBORGOSY** · 08-09-2012, 01:41 PM

A few ideas:

1) Rally America, which could be based in Denver. Denver is a major urban area, but the beauty of it is that the city is hard up agaisnt the Rocky Mountains. If it was run at the right time of year, it could be a combination tarmac-gravel-snow event, which I think would become very popular very quickly.
?

Access to roads in Colorado is very difficult. Locating service parks would be extremely difficult.. See there's a lot of really rich people who want to be left alone to enjoys the emptiness. Roads are narrow, extremely steep in many places and off highways, can be very torn up=---lots of geniuses in V8 Jeep type crap that dig up the roads, LOTS of them

Then there's the fact there is a bunch of nice guys in Colorado but none are or want to be organisers.
I introduced America to Finland's great F-Cup, arguably the best rally series in the whole world, and one friend down there has become maybe the biggest F-cup fan and advocate in America..
In other words, they're dyed-in-the-wool clubbies, highly suspect and not impressed with what we refer to as the Rally America Dog and Pony Show.

So no base, no existing structure.

(Note: where I am is where we last had WRC rally in America back in 1986/87/88...WE here in the PNW have roads by the 10s of thousands of miles, but no political clout and extremely limited access to the woods, and vastly less than in the 80s.
The skyrocketing costs of entry fees since SCCA "sold the series" to multi-millionaire Doug Havir to operate as a privately held corporation have devastated rally as have the portrayal of rally as a "big spectacle" which results in many younger guys say "I can't afford a $200k monster car like Blockstrana, so i ain't interested. So who chooses to participate has changed.. It is promoted as a idle passtime for already rich "has beens" in goofy sports that appeal to 12-14 y.o. boys in Orange County. (an affluent area of endless grids of suburbia South of Los Angeles. A consumerist paradise of endless shopping malls after shopping malls. WE here no longer have the manpower to pull of low level 30-40 car clubbie cars withouit "importing" "help" from Rally America headquarters---very very expensive help....
Sub-note.
The "party line explaining the $1000-1200 entry fees is the same stand-by excuse as 25 years ago "Oi! the Insurance premiums are skyrocketing!!! Oi!" That may be a part, but it is the combined sanction fee+ insurance fee, and the sanction fee and what that includes is never discussed.)

So no go in Colorado, No go in SoCal, NorCal, Pacific North West, Western Canada...US Deep South forget it.

**DuePew** · 08-09-2012, 02:42 PM

the best North American rallies are in Canada namely Rally of the Tall Pines in Ontario and Rally Baie Des Chaleurs in Quebec, perhaps this may seem a bit biased coming from a Canadian, but both of these events are highly regarded and draw teams from all across Canada and America.

We are years away here (both in Canada and America) though from seeing even an event reach even close to the level it would need to be for consideration. Sad because the north american market is huge obviously for Ford, but also for Mini and VW.

Perhaps the event that may be nearest for consideration is the Targa Newfoundland event that draws teams from abroad as well. (albeit this event is geared alot towards vintage cars) but the organization and participation is top notch.

There was a reason behind me writing North America.
The US is not ready for a sport that you can not follow live from a stadium, sitting still.
So there the Global Rally Cross will have a much bigger chance.

In Canada on the other hand, people are very european in mind, (part of the commonwealth) and are able to grasp sporting events that are executed oudoors, over a big area, and that you can not see everything the whole time.

So my vote goes to Canada, if anyone would take on the task of spreading the rally sport commercially to a new continent! And if something are to be called a world championship, it need to imo, to include North America.
(we can not do like the US, and call our national series for the world series! But then again, they do not speak english, but american......... ;-)

**avaiguite** · 08-09-2012, 03:27 PM

Rally Sliven is definitely the one worth being added to the WRC - calendar.
It's an event unique on its own.

The vid below says it all...

This rally would be very dangerous, could cause a lot of problems... If those drunk idiots at "the tree" cause an accident it's "an accident at the rally"... This has nothing to do with rally, the video is mostly about drunk spectators, in some places this problem is covered with the name "atmosphere"... The few shots filmed on stages don't look so special... Let's wait and see after the IRC Rally this year, to see what it's really worth

**BEKREUNSEPBERw** · 08-09-2012, 04:09 PM

Someone posted a video link to a tarmac rally in Norway, unfortunately the video title was in Norwegian so I cant remember the name Really nice looking roads there, Monte style mountains, frozen lakes and the like. May have been Grondal driving...?

Would need a few dive teams on standby in Norway in case a crew or two take a dip in the Fjords or a cliff rescue team if someone goes over the edge in places. Otherwise they appear to be classic hard out rally roads.

Rally Sokndal 2010 SS6, Snartemo BMW M3 - YouTube
Svein Frustøl - Rally Sokndal 2011 - SS2 - Try Frustøl Motorsport - YouTube

**Derrida** · 08-09-2012, 08:49 PM

There was a Canadian event in Quebec a few years back in contention for consideration for the WRC (many visits by FIA folks), the rally was known at that time as Rally Charlevoix, it had financial backing by provincial and federal government monies, sadly it fell victim to a financial scandal if I recall.

Keep in mind the WRC "DID" come to Canada years ago so there is still hope for us "one day again" Albiet spectator turnout is low compared to most other markets, but people standing outside in the dark in minus -25 Quebec winter weather to spectate at an event such as Rallye Pierce-Neige Maniwaki must count for something

Beside's Canada's economy is in far better shape then USA or almost anywhere in the world for that matter, an event in Canada one day please!!!

There was a reason behind me writing North America.
The US is not ready for a sport that you can not follow live from a stadium, sitting still.
So there the Global Rally Cross will have a much bigger chance.

In Canada on the other hand, people are very european in mind, (part of the commonwealth) and are able to grasp sporting events that are executed oudoors, over a big area, and that you can not see everything the whole time.

So my vote goes to Canada, if anyone would take on the task of spreading the rally sport commercially to a new continent! And if something are to be called a world championship, it need to imo, to include North America.
(we can not do like the US, and call our national series for the world series! But then again, they do not speak english, but american......... ;-)

**Galsteinbok** · 08-09-2012, 10:59 PM

Access to roads in Colorado is very difficult. Locating service parks would be extremely difficult.. See there's a lot of really rich people who want to be left alone to enjoys the emptiness. Roads are narrow, extremely steep in many places and off highways, can be very torn up=---lots of geniuses in V8 Jeep type crap that dig up the roads, LOTS of them.

I hear my father complain about that a lot. He tries to go up roads that were no problem for a Camaro in the 60s but are now virtually impassable. Even some of the near-by roads I could manage in college are in worse shape fifteen years later.

And if a west coast event is hard to get to, anything deep in the interior would be even harder. I've always wanted to drive up to Targa Newfoundland (an adventure in itself, so to speak) but I'll take your word for it on the ability to host something major.

Snow*Drift has some pretty large crowds and bonfires along the night stages, too. It's convenient to a number of cities and more importantly airports at Detroit and Chicago. Plus it's very compact. Lodging would be a big problem, though, as there's not really enough space for the event at its current scale.

**STYWOMBORGOSY** · 08-10-2012, 02:05 AM

In Canada on the other hand, people are very european in mind, (part of the commonwealth) and are able to grasp sporting events that are executed oudoors, over a big area, and that you can not see everything the whole time.

So my vote goes to Canada, if anyone would take on the task of spreading the rally sport commercially to a new continent! And if something are to be called a world championship, it need to imo, to include North America.
(we can not do like the US, and call our national series for the world series! But then again, they do not speak english, but american......... ;-)

Sulland, while I agree on that if there's any small chance of a someplace in North America--besides Mexico---having the right frame of mind to have a International, or eventually a VM rally is Canada, I have to disagree with you saying they "are very European" in mind..
If there can be one place that that is closest it would be Quebec, but even there, it's slightly different---which you would expect when the people are separate from "the mother country" for 250-300 years. But while the whole country isn't "very European"---they're different , and most are very Canadian, in some ways, and in some areas---like motorsports of a European origin, like moto-cross and RALLY! there WAS before a LOT of European participants both in organisation committees and in the cars in the woods.
My first licence for moto-cross was back in '69 was Canadian, my first National Championship licence was in '87 in Alberta, Canada for Rocky Mountain Rally (7th overall in the mighty V4 Saab) and my last National Championship event--and licence---was Baie de Chaleur, Quebec in '97 and last rally I drove was a couple years again in snow event in British Colombia 4 hours North of here.

But there's been a generation shift, and as a friend up there said "the border doesn't stop the AM radio or the Inter-net" so the cultural influenza of US ideas has filtered thru and society in Canada has changed somewhat.... Now for example Alberta has become indistinguishable from the oil rich boom state of Texas and in general it is more about money and bling than sport....
much---but not just---like America.. And so as a result there are fewer but fancier cars there also...LOTS of very expensive Subarus filling the start lists, and like USA, very short "rally careers" (lots of very optimistic guys in with a lot of money, but dropping out in a couple of years when they don't get a factory ride and they can't afford to pour endless money into it. Canada is a HUGE country (even if 80% of the population lives within 100km of the border) and travel distances are crazy---5000 km from one end to the other and that's a long way to tow for 200km SS, then back 5000 km..

So sadly in the last 25 years in many ways Canada has changed and become more like its neighbor which some call the Unexplored Southern Area

*when I first did moto-cross in Canada about 60% of everybody there was foreign born who had done moto-cross back in Europe. English, Dutch, Italian, German, Scott, Finns... And it showed in the layouts, the struture of the events, longer and rougher and harder than here---that is why I would drive up 250km to do their eventsrather than the smoother, simpler, shorter events here which were more horse power races.
In rally back then one of the best---and still very good---was Canadian Taisto Heinonen whose son Taisto Heinonen was a moto-cross perv and who won a couple National Championships....sounds awfully Canadian, eh?

In that '87 Rocky Mountain National (which I drove to 1,400 km away (with 5.45 slutväxel i lådan--herre gud det var världens längsta transit dit) about 70% of the organising team was foreign born, and maybe 25% of the crews..)

**prearpaccew** · 08-10-2012, 02:30 AM

Czech Republic. It Mlada Boleslav or Zlín or something else, but those fans absolutely deserve a WRC round and it would be perfect for visitors as well. Also, if their local drivers would enter, they'd mix the results nicely I think, at least in S2000 and PWRC.

I totally agree with you,Czech Republic absolutely deserve a WRC round.

**Frierlovene** · 08-10-2012, 02:57 AM

I totally agree with you,Czech Republic absolutely deserve a WRC round.

+1. Great promoters in the "virtual space". I haven't watch Rally there, but probably really deserved.

**Galsteinbok** · 08-10-2012, 03:20 AM

If only to put a thumb in VW's eye for their new car being a Polo instead of a Fabia.

**Mediconlinee** · 08-10-2012, 06:27 AM

A few ideas:
3) Revive Rally Japan, because the series needs more manufacturer support.

Agreed, it may give subaru and toyota a bit more incentive to think about entering.

Would need a few dive teams on standby in Norway in case a crew or two take a dip in the Fjords or a cliff rescue team if someone goes over the edge in places. Otherwise they appear to be classic hard out rally roads.

Rally Sokndal 2010 SS6, Snartemo BMW M3 - YouTube
Svein Frustøl - Rally Sokndal 2011 - SS2 - Try Frustøl Motorsport - YouTube

Nice onboards, especially the second one, thanks

08-09-2012, 05:46 AM	#21
STYWOMBORGOSY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 510 Senior Member	To give you guys a feeling of how small time and invisible rally is in America in general and in California in particular, the state is long, and like many real long conutries the North and the South are considered distant strange places with nothing in common. In "Northern" California, in the San Francisco area according to wilipedia: The city is also the financial and cultural hub of the larger San Jose-San Francisco-Oakland metropolitan area, with a population of 7.4 million. Last weekend a regional event was just held and there were a total of 12 entries: Reg 1 Results It was a friend who won in a very modest Golf MkII, another friend who was second on my own suspension. Southern California , again from wiki The Census Bureau also defines a wider region based on commuting patterns, the Los Angeles-Long Beach-Riverside Combined Statistical Area (CSA), more commonly known as the Greater Los Angeles Area, with an estimated population of 17,786,419.[4 17.7 million.. Typically they might have 20-maybe 30 entries. Most extremely modest levels of prep...many near stock. There is simply no the numbers of people in the sport at even the most rudimentary level to support more than just fun events... The guy above is right, Canada, especially the nearer to "New France" aka Quebec you get, they better the event, and there are even spectators at 'Baie de Chaleurs" , but as much as I enjoyed canadian events when i did them, it is dreaming to think the events could ratchet up and cooperate..and pull off a real event with 100-180 entries. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 06:02 AM	#22
Galsteinbok Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 548 Senior Member	More particularly I think any North American event would need to be in the east, making transport much easier. A west coast event would be a big logistical move like Australia, New Zealand, or Japan. As much as I'd like to see the WRC at an event I can get to easily like Sno*Drift - run in late January - Canada is probably the better bet. Guess I'd need to take more days off work, then. If there was a way to incorporate it into a long event like Targa Newfoundland it could be even more unique. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 06:27 AM	#23
Mediconlinee Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	Someone posted a video link to a tarmac rally in Norway, unfortunately the video title was in Norwegian so I cant remember the name Really nice looking roads there, Monte style mountains, frozen lakes and the like. May have been Grondal driving...? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 06:46 AM	#24
DoctorNiCYDEn Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 515 Senior Member	They shouldn't be adding any events to the WRC where the sport is not strong and has no history of running top level events. The WRC is the pinnacle of our sport and ought reflect the culture we, who are involved in the sport, have grown and nutured for decades. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

08-09-2012, 07:04 AM	#25
AnypecekceS Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 554 Senior Member	When Loeb retires, will the Alsace region still be intetested in a WRC round? I wonder... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 07:06 AM	#26
Xodvbooj Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 407 Senior Member	... I want to say "Sliven", because I'm from here and there are great tarmac stages around which has been major part of the famous european rally "Zlatni" in 80's and 90's... Rally Sliven is definitely the one worth being added to the WRC - calendar. It's an event unique on its own. The vid below says it all... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 07:23 AM	#27
STYWOMBORGOSY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 510 Senior Member	More particularly I think any North American event would need to be in the east, making transport much easier. A west coast event would be a big logistical move like Australia, New Zealand, or Japan. As much as I'd like to see the WRC at an event I can get to easily like SnoDrift - run in late January - Canada is probably the better bet. Guess I'd need to take more days off work, then. If there was a way to incorporate it into a long event like Targa Newfoundland it could be even more unique. Tavarich Gregorij, Targa Newfie-land looks like fun but the reality is it is just a well promoted play time for old farts with silly shiney cars.. A friend and customer of mine Martin Walter from up in Ontario took his old pounded to death for3-4 seasons gravel rally Nissan 240 Nissan, stock JDM SR20DET engine and box, Sooper Bitchin JVAB gravel Söspendös*, and some random asphalt tires, and nearly won it. It is somewhat akin to the Alcan 5000 which has run from here in Sleezattle up to the Arctic Sea and then to Anchorage winter and summer alternating years.. It is basically a drive in pretty countryside. And Newfie+land is pretty and the people I have met unusually friendly, and that counts highly in my book, but thereäs not the roads, the facilities, the population to support even a Canadian Championship Rally much less anything more. Tall Pines would be closer, better terrain, but not the organisational structure-----although the Canajians can certainly do it easier with just CARS than USAians could with 4 distinct organisations who cannot speak much less cooperate together. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 11:43 AM	#28
jurnalkduo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 390 Senior Member	They shouldn't be adding any events to the WRC where the sport is not strong and has no history of running top level events. The WRC is the pinnacle of our sport and ought reflect the culture we, who are involved in the sport, have grown and nutured for decades. +1 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 11:59 AM	#29
suiviouse Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 442 Senior Member	A few ideas: 1) Rally America, which could be based in Denver. Denver is a major urban area, but the beauty of it is that the city is hard up agaisnt the Rocky Mountains. If it was run at the right time of year, it could be a combination tarmac-gravel-snow event, which I think would become very popular very quickly. 2) Baltic Rally, which seems like a popular idea. I'm suggesting it here because one of the original proposals for Rally Argentina this year was an "endurance" even, starting in Argentina, crossing Paraguay and entering Brazil. The idea never came to fruition, but it could be applied to a rally in the Baltic states, starting in Vilnius and ending in Tallinn, which are only about 500km apart. Yes, the liasion stages would be long, but it could be a four-day endurance event. Again, I think it would be popular. 3) Revive Rally Japan, because the series needs more manufacturer support. 4) Revive Rally Indonesia, which was a fantastic event, even if it was only run twice before the East Timor crisis made the event unmanageable and inappropriate. Alternatively, something else in South-East Asia could be good. Maybe a Rally of Thailand? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 01:41 PM	#30
STYWOMBORGOSY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 510 Senior Member	A few ideas: 1) Rally America, which could be based in Denver. Denver is a major urban area, but the beauty of it is that the city is hard up agaisnt the Rocky Mountains. If it was run at the right time of year, it could be a combination tarmac-gravel-snow event, which I think would become very popular very quickly. ? Access to roads in Colorado is very difficult. Locating service parks would be extremely difficult.. See there's a lot of really rich people who want to be left alone to enjoys the emptiness. Roads are narrow, extremely steep in many places and off highways, can be very torn up=---lots of geniuses in V8 Jeep type crap that dig up the roads, LOTS of them Then there's the fact there is a bunch of nice guys in Colorado but none are or want to be organisers. I introduced America to Finland's great F-Cup, arguably the best rally series in the whole world, and one friend down there has become maybe the biggest F-cup fan and advocate in America.. In other words, they're dyed-in-the-wool clubbies, highly suspect and not impressed with what we refer to as the Rally America Dog and Pony Show. So no base, no existing structure. (Note: where I am is where we last had WRC rally in America back in 1986/87/88...WE here in the PNW have roads by the 10s of thousands of miles, but no political clout and extremely limited access to the woods, and vastly less than in the 80s. The skyrocketing costs of entry fees since SCCA "sold the series" to multi-millionaire Doug Havir to operate as a privately held corporation have devastated rally as have the portrayal of rally as a "big spectacle" which results in many younger guys say "I can't afford a $200k monster car like Blockstrana, so i ain't interested. So who chooses to participate has changed.. It is promoted as a idle passtime for already rich "has beens" in goofy sports that appeal to 12-14 y.o. boys in Orange County. (an affluent area of endless grids of suburbia South of Los Angeles. A consumerist paradise of endless shopping malls after shopping malls. WE here no longer have the manpower to pull of low level 30-40 car clubbie cars withouit "importing" "help" from Rally America headquarters---very very expensive help.... Sub-note. The "party line explaining the $1000-1200 entry fees is the same stand-by excuse as 25 years ago "Oi! the Insurance premiums are skyrocketing!!! Oi!" That may be a part, but it is the combined sanction fee+ insurance fee, and the sanction fee and what that includes is never discussed.) So no go in Colorado, No go in SoCal, NorCal, Pacific North West, Western Canada...US Deep South forget it. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 02:42 PM	#31
DuePew Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 634 Senior Member	the best North American rallies are in Canada namely Rally of the Tall Pines in Ontario and Rally Baie Des Chaleurs in Quebec, perhaps this may seem a bit biased coming from a Canadian, but both of these events are highly regarded and draw teams from all across Canada and America. We are years away here (both in Canada and America) though from seeing even an event reach even close to the level it would need to be for consideration. Sad because the north american market is huge obviously for Ford, but also for Mini and VW. Perhaps the event that may be nearest for consideration is the Targa Newfoundland event that draws teams from abroad as well. (albeit this event is geared alot towards vintage cars) but the organization and participation is top notch. There was a reason behind me writing North America. The US is not ready for a sport that you can not follow live from a stadium, sitting still. So there the Global Rally Cross will have a much bigger chance. In Canada on the other hand, people are very european in mind, (part of the commonwealth) and are able to grasp sporting events that are executed oudoors, over a big area, and that you can not see everything the whole time. So my vote goes to Canada, if anyone would take on the task of spreading the rally sport commercially to a new continent! And if something are to be called a world championship, it need to imo, to include North America. (we can not do like the US, and call our national series for the world series! But then again, they do not speak english, but american......... ;-) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 03:27 PM	#32
avaiguite Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 489 Senior Member	Rally Sliven is definitely the one worth being added to the WRC - calendar. It's an event unique on its own. The vid below says it all... This rally would be very dangerous, could cause a lot of problems... If those drunk idiots at "the tree" cause an accident it's "an accident at the rally"... This has nothing to do with rally, the video is mostly about drunk spectators, in some places this problem is covered with the name "atmosphere"... The few shots filmed on stages don't look so special... Let's wait and see after the IRC Rally this year, to see what it's really worth Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 04:09 PM	#33
BEKREUNSEPBERw Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 388 Senior Member	Someone posted a video link to a tarmac rally in Norway, unfortunately the video title was in Norwegian so I cant remember the name Really nice looking roads there, Monte style mountains, frozen lakes and the like. May have been Grondal driving...? Would need a few dive teams on standby in Norway in case a crew or two take a dip in the Fjords or a cliff rescue team if someone goes over the edge in places. Otherwise they appear to be classic hard out rally roads. Rally Sokndal 2010 SS6, Snartemo BMW M3 - YouTube Svein Frustøl - Rally Sokndal 2011 - SS2 - Try Frustøl Motorsport - YouTube Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 08:49 PM	#34
Derrida Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 372 Senior Member	There was a Canadian event in Quebec a few years back in contention for consideration for the WRC (many visits by FIA folks), the rally was known at that time as Rally Charlevoix, it had financial backing by provincial and federal government monies, sadly it fell victim to a financial scandal if I recall. Keep in mind the WRC "DID" come to Canada years ago so there is still hope for us "one day again" Albiet spectator turnout is low compared to most other markets, but people standing outside in the dark in minus -25 Quebec winter weather to spectate at an event such as Rallye Pierce-Neige Maniwaki must count for something Beside's Canada's economy is in far better shape then USA or almost anywhere in the world for that matter, an event in Canada one day please!!! There was a reason behind me writing North America. The US is not ready for a sport that you can not follow live from a stadium, sitting still. So there the Global Rally Cross will have a much bigger chance. In Canada on the other hand, people are very european in mind, (part of the commonwealth) and are able to grasp sporting events that are executed oudoors, over a big area, and that you can not see everything the whole time. So my vote goes to Canada, if anyone would take on the task of spreading the rally sport commercially to a new continent! And if something are to be called a world championship, it need to imo, to include North America. (we can not do like the US, and call our national series for the world series! But then again, they do not speak english, but american......... ;-) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-09-2012, 10:59 PM	#35
Galsteinbok Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 548 Senior Member	Access to roads in Colorado is very difficult. Locating service parks would be extremely difficult.. See there's a lot of really rich people who want to be left alone to enjoys the emptiness. Roads are narrow, extremely steep in many places and off highways, can be very torn up=---lots of geniuses in V8 Jeep type crap that dig up the roads, LOTS of them. I hear my father complain about that a lot. He tries to go up roads that were no problem for a Camaro in the 60s but are now virtually impassable. Even some of the near-by roads I could manage in college are in worse shape fifteen years later. And if a west coast event is hard to get to, anything deep in the interior would be even harder. I've always wanted to drive up to Targa Newfoundland (an adventure in itself, so to speak) but I'll take your word for it on the ability to host something major. Snow*Drift has some pretty large crowds and bonfires along the night stages, too. It's convenient to a number of cities and more importantly airports at Detroit and Chicago. Plus it's very compact. Lodging would be a big problem, though, as there's not really enough space for the event at its current scale. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-10-2012, 02:05 AM	#36
STYWOMBORGOSY Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 510 Senior Member	In Canada on the other hand, people are very european in mind, (part of the commonwealth) and are able to grasp sporting events that are executed oudoors, over a big area, and that you can not see everything the whole time. So my vote goes to Canada, if anyone would take on the task of spreading the rally sport commercially to a new continent! And if something are to be called a world championship, it need to imo, to include North America. (we can not do like the US, and call our national series for the world series! But then again, they do not speak english, but american......... ;-) Sulland, while I agree on that if there's any small chance of a someplace in North America--besides Mexico---having the right frame of mind to have a International, or eventually a VM rally is Canada, I have to disagree with you saying they "are very European" in mind.. If there can be one place that that is closest it would be Quebec, but even there, it's slightly different---which you would expect when the people are separate from "the mother country" for 250-300 years. But while the whole country isn't "very European"---they're different , and most are very Canadian, in some ways, and in some areas---like motorsports of a European origin, like moto-cross and RALLY! there WAS before a LOT of European participants both in organisation committees and in the cars in the woods. My first licence for moto-cross was back in '69 was Canadian, my first National Championship licence was in '87 in Alberta, Canada for Rocky Mountain Rally (7th overall in the mighty V4 Saab) and my last National Championship event--and licence---was Baie de Chaleur, Quebec in '97 and last rally I drove was a couple years again in snow event in British Colombia 4 hours North of here. But there's been a generation shift, and as a friend up there said "the border doesn't stop the AM radio or the Inter-net" so the cultural influenza of US ideas has filtered thru and society in Canada has changed somewhat.... Now for example Alberta has become indistinguishable from the oil rich boom state of Texas and in general it is more about money and bling than sport.... much---but not just---like America.. And so as a result there are fewer but fancier cars there also...LOTS of very expensive Subarus filling the start lists, and like USA, very short "rally careers" (lots of very optimistic guys in with a lot of money, but dropping out in a couple of years when they don't get a factory ride and they can't afford to pour endless money into it. Canada is a HUGE country (even if 80% of the population lives within 100km of the border) and travel distances are crazy---5000 km from one end to the other and that's a long way to tow for 200km SS, then back 5000 km.. So sadly in the last 25 years in many ways Canada has changed and become more like its neighbor which some call the Unexplored Southern Area *when I first did moto-cross in Canada about 60% of everybody there was foreign born who had done moto-cross back in Europe. English, Dutch, Italian, German, Scott, Finns... And it showed in the layouts, the struture of the events, longer and rougher and harder than here---that is why I would drive up 250km to do their eventsrather than the smoother, simpler, shorter events here which were more horse power races. In rally back then one of the best---and still very good---was Canadian Taisto Heinonen whose son Taisto Heinonen was a moto-cross perv and who won a couple National Championships....sounds awfully Canadian, eh? In that '87 Rocky Mountain National (which I drove to 1,400 km away (with 5.45 slutväxel i lådan--herre gud det var världens längsta transit dit) about 70% of the organising team was foreign born, and maybe 25% of the crews..) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-10-2012, 02:30 AM	#37
prearpaccew Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 466 Senior Member	Czech Republic. It Mlada Boleslav or Zlín or something else, but those fans absolutely deserve a WRC round and it would be perfect for visitors as well. Also, if their local drivers would enter, they'd mix the results nicely I think, at least in S2000 and PWRC. I totally agree with you,Czech Republic absolutely deserve a WRC round. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-10-2012, 02:57 AM	#38
Frierlovene Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 458 Senior Member	I totally agree with you,Czech Republic absolutely deserve a WRC round. +1. Great promoters in the "virtual space". I haven't watch Rally there, but probably really deserved. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-10-2012, 03:20 AM	#39
Galsteinbok Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 548 Senior Member	If only to put a thumb in VW's eye for their new car being a Polo instead of a Fabia. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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08-10-2012, 06:27 AM	#40
Mediconlinee Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 433 Senior Member	A few ideas: 3) Revive Rally Japan, because the series needs more manufacturer support. Agreed, it may give subaru and toyota a bit more incentive to think about entering. Would need a few dive teams on standby in Norway in case a crew or two take a dip in the Fjords or a cliff rescue team if someone goes over the edge in places. Otherwise they appear to be classic hard out rally roads. Rally Sokndal 2010 SS6, Snartemo BMW M3 - YouTube Svein Frustøl - Rally Sokndal 2011 - SS2 - Try Frustøl Motorsport - YouTube Nice onboards, especially the second one, thanks Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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