2012 Silly Season - WRC - Page 2 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**Vomekayafboke** · 10-03-2011, 09:41 PM

Have some humor!

It's not humor to pretend to have inside info. It's pure idiocy. ..oh well, maybe in Finland.

**SHaEFU0i** · 10-03-2011, 10:06 PM

If Hirvonen wins, Citroen drives again with 1&2 on the door?

**Ltftujkg** · 10-03-2011, 10:07 PM

It`s not pretending i meant the humor part to save this info.
Mikko has even asked some of his mechanics to join him already for C next year!

**FsQGF1Mp** · 10-03-2011, 10:07 PM

Mini is sponsored by BP en Castrol. Partners / WRC / MINI Motorsport

are these financial partners as well ? i doubt for example that Michelin is sponsorong the mini project in ways other than tyres, and Castrol and BP are partners of the M-sport project...maybe they provide the lubrication products for the car only.

**FsQGF1Mp** · 10-03-2011, 10:09 PM

It`s not pretending i meant the humor part to save this info.
Mikko has even asked some of his mechanics to join him already for C next year!

So he will join as No2 driver status ? or equal status ?

**Ltftujkg** · 10-03-2011, 10:12 PM

If Loeb has as said a contract that grants him no.1 than it`s quit easy to do the math! Also there`s no way i think he could challenge loeb anyway regardless of what says in any contract!

**gogona** · 10-03-2011, 10:14 PM

are these financial partners as well ? i doubt for example that Michelin is sponsorong the mini project in ways other than tyres, and Castrol and BP are partners of the M-sport project...maybe they provide the lubrication products for the car only.

I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix!

**FsQGF1Mp** · 10-03-2011, 10:16 PM

If Loeb has as said a contract that grants him no.1 than it`s quit easy to do the math! Also there`s no way i think he could challenge loeb anyway regardless of what says in any contract!

well its not about challange...for example if Loeb had No1 status this year Ogier would have dropped behind him in many occasions and he would allow him to win, but he only did that when Loeb was way ahead on points and the main contender for the championship.

The move of Hirvonen to citroen would mean that the Citroen team also will change their policy concerning drivers from now on and they will have a No1 and a No2....so far all these years they had the equal start and the one who gets ahead on points comfortably gets the No1 for the rest of the season.

**gogona** · 10-03-2011, 10:23 PM

Btw, the line-up for 2012 would be like this IMHO

CITROEN: Loeb-Hirvonen
FORD: Latvala-Ogier
MINI: Meeke-Sordo
VOLKSWAGEN: P.Solberg-Hanninen

> Private teams

QATAR: Al-Attiyah
VM-MOTORSPORT: van Merksteijn

STOBART: H.Solberg-Wilson(?)-Ostberg
FERM: Kuipers
MUNCHI'S: Villagra (?)
ABU DHABI: Al Qassimi
MONSTER: Block (?)

BRAZIL WRT: Oliveira-Atkinson (?)
MS ITALIA: Araujo

VW B-TEAM: Gassner Jr-Mikkelsen

**assohillA** · 10-03-2011, 10:26 PM

The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

**Bounce** · 10-03-2011, 10:28 PM

I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix!

it s not big space,big space was in Ford before some seasons.Now has just the front wings and 4 small stickers at the front/rear bumper.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally…
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally…

Even if no money included,you can t know how many tons of engine oil,gear-box oils,diff oils,brake fluids,antifreeze coolant,and various sprays(grease spray,penetrating,brake cleaner etc) included in this deal.Don t forget that prodrive serves not only the minis,but plenty subarus track cars etc Surely the amount off lubricants they need is not so small.And all these lubricants/fluids will sold..=money

**FsQGF1Mp** · 10-03-2011, 10:31 PM

The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

the simple answer IF ogier moves is that Loeb is a long term investment for the Citroen team.....Loeb will be used long after he retires for Citroen to advertise cars, test their cars, offer his expertise ects...and Citroen will have bragging right over the best motorsport driver ever until today.

Ogier on the other hand sure has a long future but none can guarantee that his success will make him a legend.

**Bounce** · 10-03-2011, 10:35 PM

A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

Ask Quesnel,surely knows the reason...

**Efksqhyu** · 10-03-2011, 10:36 PM

The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened?

AFAIK Quesnel wanted Ogier but PSA bosses didn't want to loose what they were building for years - valuable marketing combination of Loeb and Citroën. Simply they thought that Loeb going to VW would make a big damage to the Citroën public picture. In situation when both drivers are natural leaders and both sides have part of the truth, it must have been very difficult to make the choice...

Maybe there is no long-term future of Citroën in rallying? I can imagine something like a new swap to Peugeot only in horizon of few years...

**Vomekayafboke** · 10-03-2011, 10:38 PM

The move of Hirvonen to citroen would mean that the Citroen team also will change their policy concerning drivers from now on and they will have a No1 and a No2....so far all these years they had the equal start and the one who gets ahead on points comfortably gets the No1 for the rest of the season.

What a load of BS! We been over this many times and you're about the only one to cling to this misconception. The only time Citroen didn't have No1 driver, since Loeb won his first title, is from mid-2010 to mid-2011, when PSA management stepped in to put things back in order. No wonder you can't find a cure with this one-eyed mindset.

**Bounce** · 10-03-2011, 10:42 PM

the simple answer IF ogier moves is that Loeb is a long term investment for the Citroen team.....Loeb will be used long after he retires for Citroen to advertise cars, test their cars, offer his expertise ects...and Citroen will have bragging right over the best motorsport driver ever until today..

Agree,but don t forget that Loeb is not going to be for ages at top level.Time passes for everybody.So they have to find the replacement....and they found him....

Ogier on the other hand sure has a long future but none can guarantee that his success will make him a legend.

NOT the problem for Citroen is not if Ogier take more or less championships than Loeb.Probably they want the replacement of him when he retired.
Another point is that Citroen have invest on Ogier,and this is the reason that i think they are not going to lost him easy.When you have invest in a driver some 2-3 millions you dont give him as a present to another team.The problem is that except money you need a lot of time and luck to create a driver at Loebs/Ogiers level.
All these we hadn t got to talk if Quesnel had do proper his job,and not patronising a rookie against the 7 times champion.

**Bounce** · 10-03-2011, 10:48 PM

Maybe there is no long-term future of Citroën in rallying? I can imagine something like a new swap to Peugeot only in horizon of few years...

This is the biggest point which going to decide if they want to keep both,or only Loeb.

**FsQGF1Mp** · 10-03-2011, 11:02 PM

What a load of BS! We been over this many times and you're about the only one to cling to this misconception. The only time Citroen didn't have No1 driver, since Loeb won his first title, is from mid-2010 to mid-2011, when PSA management stepped in to put things back in order. No wonder you can't find a cure with this one-eyed mindset.

you have any evidence for that ?? because i never saw anyone slowing down for Loeb while he wasn't comfortably ahead of his team mate....

the fact that the team mates of Loeb were not on par with him since he won his first title is another story....

**gogona** · 10-03-2011, 11:05 PM

it s not big space,big space was in Ford before some seasons.Now has just the front wings and 4 small stickers at the front/rear bumper.
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally…
eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally…

Even if no money included,you can t know how many tons of engine oil,gear-box oils,diff oils,brake fluids,antifreeze coolant,and various sprays(grease spray,penetrating,brake cleaner etc) included in this deal.Don t forget that prodrive serves not only the minis,but plenty subarus track cars etc Surely the amount off lubricants they need is not so small.And all these lubricants/fluids will sold..=money

I'm talkin about BP Ultimate (which owns Castrol brand).

**MedicineForUs** · 10-03-2011, 11:06 PM

There was a story some months ago that Citroen would be in WRC for ten more years if everything went well and the rules suited them, so say what you want but Loeb wont be around for three years, much less ten.

10-03-2011, 09:41 PM	#21
Vomekayafboke Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 408 Senior Member	Have some humor! It's not humor to pretend to have inside info. It's pure idiocy. ..oh well, maybe in Finland. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:06 PM	#22
SHaEFU0i Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 426 Senior Member	If Hirvonen wins, Citroen drives again with 1&2 on the door? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
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10-03-2011, 10:07 PM	#23
Ltftujkg Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	It`s not pretending i meant the humor part to save this info. Mikko has even asked some of his mechanics to join him already for C next year! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:07 PM	#24
FsQGF1Mp Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	Mini is sponsored by BP en Castrol. Partners / WRC / MINI Motorsport are these financial partners as well ? i doubt for example that Michelin is sponsorong the mini project in ways other than tyres, and Castrol and BP are partners of the M-sport project...maybe they provide the lubrication products for the car only. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:09 PM	#25
FsQGF1Mp Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	It`s not pretending i meant the humor part to save this info. Mikko has even asked some of his mechanics to join him already for C next year! So he will join as No2 driver status ? or equal status ? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:12 PM	#26
Ltftujkg Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 443 Senior Member	If Loeb has as said a contract that grants him no.1 than it`s quit easy to do the math! Also there`s no way i think he could challenge loeb anyway regardless of what says in any contract! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:14 PM	#27
gogona Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 420 Senior Member	are these financial partners as well ? i doubt for example that Michelin is sponsorong the mini project in ways other than tyres, and Castrol and BP are partners of the M-sport project...maybe they provide the lubrication products for the car only. I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:16 PM	#28
FsQGF1Mp Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	If Loeb has as said a contract that grants him no.1 than it`s quit easy to do the math! Also there`s no way i think he could challenge loeb anyway regardless of what says in any contract! well its not about challange...for example if Loeb had No1 status this year Ogier would have dropped behind him in many occasions and he would allow him to win, but he only did that when Loeb was way ahead on points and the main contender for the championship. The move of Hirvonen to citroen would mean that the Citroen team also will change their policy concerning drivers from now on and they will have a No1 and a No2....so far all these years they had the equal start and the one who gets ahead on points comfortably gets the No1 for the rest of the season. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:23 PM	#29
gogona Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 420 Senior Member	Btw, the line-up for 2012 would be like this IMHO CITROEN: Loeb-Hirvonen FORD: Latvala-Ogier MINI: Meeke-Sordo VOLKSWAGEN: P.Solberg-Hanninen > Private teams QATAR: Al-Attiyah VM-MOTORSPORT: van Merksteijn STOBART: H.Solberg-Wilson(?)-Ostberg FERM: Kuipers MUNCHI'S: Villagra (?) ABU DHABI: Al Qassimi MONSTER: Block (?) BRAZIL WRT: Oliveira-Atkinson (?) MS ITALIA: Araujo VW B-TEAM: Gassner Jr-Mikkelsen Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:26 PM	#30
assohillA Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:28 PM	#31
Bounce Join Date Oct 2005 Age 55 Posts 400 Senior Member	I doubt that such a big space on the car would be dedicated to a simple supplier... I think there's also money in the mix! it s not big space,big space was in Ford before some seasons.Now has just the front wings and 4 small stickers at the front/rear bumper. eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… Even if no money included,you can t know how many tons of engine oil,gear-box oils,diff oils,brake fluids,antifreeze coolant,and various sprays(grease spray,penetrating,brake cleaner etc) included in this deal.Don t forget that prodrive serves not only the minis,but plenty subarus track cars etc Surely the amount off lubricants they need is not so small.And all these lubricants/fluids will sold..=money Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:31 PM	#32
FsQGF1Mp Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened? the simple answer IF ogier moves is that Loeb is a long term investment for the Citroen team.....Loeb will be used long after he retires for Citroen to advertise cars, test their cars, offer his expertise ects...and Citroen will have bragging right over the best motorsport driver ever until today. Ogier on the other hand sure has a long future but none can guarantee that his success will make him a legend. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:35 PM	#33
Bounce Join Date Oct 2005 Age 55 Posts 400 Senior Member	A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened? Ask Quesnel,surely knows the reason... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:36 PM	#34
Efksqhyu Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 546 Senior Member	The strange thing is that if two Sebs really can't fit into one team, why is Citroen preferring the older driver instead of a long-term prospect? A year or so ago there were a lot of guesses that Ogier will send Loeb to retirement and Citroen should be relieved that they have finally got a driver, who can take over the lead role in the team. What happened? AFAIK Quesnel wanted Ogier but PSA bosses didn't want to loose what they were building for years - valuable marketing combination of Loeb and Citroën. Simply they thought that Loeb going to VW would make a big damage to the Citroën public picture. In situation when both drivers are natural leaders and both sides have part of the truth, it must have been very difficult to make the choice... Maybe there is no long-term future of Citroën in rallying? I can imagine something like a new swap to Peugeot only in horizon of few years... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:38 PM	#35
Vomekayafboke Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 408 Senior Member	The move of Hirvonen to citroen would mean that the Citroen team also will change their policy concerning drivers from now on and they will have a No1 and a No2....so far all these years they had the equal start and the one who gets ahead on points comfortably gets the No1 for the rest of the season. What a load of BS! We been over this many times and you're about the only one to cling to this misconception. The only time Citroen didn't have No1 driver, since Loeb won his first title, is from mid-2010 to mid-2011, when PSA management stepped in to put things back in order. No wonder you can't find a cure with this one-eyed mindset. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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10-03-2011, 10:42 PM	#36
Bounce Join Date Oct 2005 Age 55 Posts 400 Senior Member	the simple answer IF ogier moves is that Loeb is a long term investment for the Citroen team.....Loeb will be used long after he retires for Citroen to advertise cars, test their cars, offer his expertise ects...and Citroen will have bragging right over the best motorsport driver ever until today.. Agree,but don t forget that Loeb is not going to be for ages at top level.Time passes for everybody.So they have to find the replacement....and they found him.... Ogier on the other hand sure has a long future but none can guarantee that his success will make him a legend. NOT the problem for Citroen is not if Ogier take more or less championships than Loeb.Probably they want the replacement of him when he retired. Another point is that Citroen have invest on Ogier,and this is the reason that i think they are not going to lost him easy.When you have invest in a driver some 2-3 millions you dont give him as a present to another team.The problem is that except money you need a lot of time and luck to create a driver at Loebs/Ogiers level. All these we hadn t got to talk if Quesnel had do proper his job,and not patronising a rookie against the 7 times champion. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 10:48 PM	#37
Bounce Join Date Oct 2005 Age 55 Posts 400 Senior Member	Maybe there is no long-term future of Citroën in rallying? I can imagine something like a new swap to Peugeot only in horizon of few years... This is the biggest point which going to decide if they want to keep both,or only Loeb. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 11:02 PM	#38
FsQGF1Mp Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 516 Senior Member	What a load of BS! We been over this many times and you're about the only one to cling to this misconception. The only time Citroen didn't have No1 driver, since Loeb won his first title, is from mid-2010 to mid-2011, when PSA management stepped in to put things back in order. No wonder you can't find a cure with this one-eyed mindset. you have any evidence for that ?? because i never saw anyone slowing down for Loeb while he wasn't comfortably ahead of his team mate.... the fact that the team mates of Loeb were not on par with him since he won his first title is another story.... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 11:05 PM	#39
gogona Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 420 Senior Member	it s not big space,big space was in Ford before some seasons.Now has just the front wings and 4 small stickers at the front/rear bumper. eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… eWRC.cz - po všech stránkách rally… Even if no money included,you can t know how many tons of engine oil,gear-box oils,diff oils,brake fluids,antifreeze coolant,and various sprays(grease spray,penetrating,brake cleaner etc) included in this deal.Don t forget that prodrive serves not only the minis,but plenty subarus track cars etc Surely the amount off lubricants they need is not so small.And all these lubricants/fluids will sold..=money I'm talkin about BP Ultimate (which owns Castrol brand). Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

10-03-2011, 11:06 PM	#40
MedicineForUs Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 389 Senior Member	There was a story some months ago that Citroen would be in WRC for ten more years if everything went well and the rules suited them, so say what you want but Loeb wont be around for three years, much less ten. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote