[Maydayvar]

Originally posted by DaShi
No, but personal attacks distract from the issue and try to bias people against those who disagree with you. So when you don't have a response to someone and/or a weak argument. Just resort to personal attacks. Tried and true, it'll get you out of your mess. That's essentially what Vesayen's doing with this thread. He's suggesting that Texans are a bunch of bloodthirsty monsters for not giving this man yet another procedurally based break. That's just one big personal attack designed to bias people against Texans, with whom Vesayen disagrees.

He's waited around 19 years since convinvtion, despite the fact that no one disputes the man's guilt. His attorneys were too busy gaming the system to submit the paperwork on time, flubbing the most basic procedural step. It's their fault that they didn't get it in on time. The end result of this is that a convicted rapist-murderer, one who doesn't even dispute what he did (other than to say "the gun accidentally went off"), gets executed sooner.

Vesayan's whole rant (and the whole Lethal Injection debate) is just a collateral attack on the death penalty. I merely pointed out what the convict did. There was no rush to execution here (it's been 20 years). There was no real question as to whether this man was guilty. The only issue here is whether they should have waited to see whether SCOTUS bans lethal injection, in which case Texas will execute him via other means. Even if SCOTUS bans L.I., ex post facto wouldn't prevent Texas from changing the method of execution to some other method of execution. This whole situation is nothing but attorneys screwing up their dilatory tactics. I have a hard time feeling bad about the situation.

[Stoottnoiciek]

Originally posted by Kidicious
Texans pretty much agree that they like to kill people don't they? Yes. Texas is just a bloody free-for-all, with every Texan constantly stalking and murdering as many other people as he can find, only stopping when he himself is murdered by another vile Texan.

Texans execute convicted murders, and they're not ashamed of it. In this case, bungling attorneys caused an execution to go on as scheduled. That's not the same as "liking to kill people."

[SmuffNuSMaxqh]

In the eyes of the Ranger, the unsuspecting stranger, had better know the truth of wrong from right. Cause the eyes of the Ranger are upon you. Any wrong you do, he's gonna see. When your in Texas look behind you. Cause that's where the Ranger's gonna be.

[trilochana.nejman]

Originally posted by Kidicious


No but killing people is the same as liking to kill people. Most Texans wear it like a badge of honor. Yay! We are the Republic of Texas. We kill more people! I'm sure there may be a kernal of truth had you said:

"Yay! We are the Republic of Texas. We kill more rapists and murderers!"

But I've never heard any texan say anything to the effect of what you just said.

Perhaps the difference between you and those texans you detest is that they differentiate between the very general category of "people" and the far more specific category of "rapists and murderers" while apparently you cannot. Maybe that's the philosophical debate you should be having rather than worrying about how texan clerks apparently enjoy following the letter of the law and performing their duties as instructed.

[provigil]

Originally posted by Kidicious


Perhaps the difference between me and Texans is that I call people convicted of murder people. I don't go around distiguishing between people and those who are "evil-doers." That is why you can't understand Texans. It has nothing to do with Texans deriving pleasure from killing people. That perception is a product of your imagination and aforementioned inability or unwillingness to treat people differently based on their behaviors.

[c2siOlIk]

Originally posted by East Street Trader
You take too long between sentence and execution.

Those involved in your administration of justice need to be ashamed of this.

The aim needs to be to complete the process in a week or two.

The longest tolerable period is about 3 months.

You need to revise your practices to cut down the number of appeals.

Your procedures - whether on the part of judges, advocates or clerks - must facilitate a speedy process not slow it down.

That leaves no room for closing at 5.00 pm.

If the state can't get its execution done in six months then the sentence needs to be automatically commuted. I'm all for increasing the number of wrongly convicted. Good call.

[smokeberly]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
It's not like they were claiming the guy was innocent. I wouldn't waste my time on a rapist and murderer either. Kid, how humanitarian of you to empathise with such "people" Not wanting them to die is not exactly empathizing with them. I just prefer not to kill people.

[PemiaGefe]

Originally posted by Wycoff
So to you, people are people, and shouldn't be judged for their actions? Does that apply to Ken Lay and other capitalist pig-dogs? Ken Lay wasn't an "evil doer?" I do not consider myself superior to anyone. No matter what they do. It's not my nature.

[thakitt]

Originally posted by Kidicious


People feel a certian way and then they believe accordingly. You can't seperate how people feel from how they believe. I detect a miscommunication. This seems like a complete non sequitor. In what way did you perceive that I might be trying to seperate how people feel from how they believe?

[LkEHaduy]

Originally posted by Geronimo


I detect a miscommunication. This seems like a complete non sequitor. In what way did you perceive that I might be trying to seperate how people feel from how they believe? "It has nothing to do with Texans deriving pleasure from killing people."

[dr-eavealer]

Originally posted by Agathon


What do you expect when Texans continually act like a bunch of ignorant barbarians? Hey, I'm not a barbarian.

[Pippoles]

Originally posted by Kidicious


"It has nothing to do with Texans deriving pleasure from killing people." You misunderstsood my post.

Possibly most Texans derive pleasure (in some sense) from killing criminals and rapists because they believe it's the proper thing to do.

However it would be incorrect to say that they enjoy killing people as an unqualified statement.

If a texan accidently backed over their kid while pulling out of their garage I daresay they would derive zero pleasure from having killed someone.

Ergo Texans don't enjoy killing people. They "enjoy" killing *certain* people under *certain* circumstances and as it happens none of the enjoyment whatsoever will be expected to exist under other circumstances.

[catermos]

Originally posted by East Street Trader
If the state can't get its execution done in six months then the sentence needs to be automatically commuted. The state could. The delays are on the convict/appellant side, taking advantage of every delaying tactic possible, to buy time for the condemned.

[SingleMan]

Originally posted by Wycoff

Bandwagon fallacy. I love it. You're (supposedly) a philosopher. Why don't you actually make an argument? Are we not allowed to make claims now? Is the death penalty not popular in Texas? Is Texas not the most extreme representative of the death penalty in the US?

I would have thought it evident to every rational being that the Texan attitude towards punishment was backward. I've made plenty of anti-DP arguments in other threads, but I no longer see any point in wasting actual knowledge of the issue on the average Poly conservative (who have been immunized against reason). But there's still some common decency in condemning barbarism wherever it exists.

People who defend the death penalty aren't much different from people who defend burning witches.

[orapope]

No thanks to you guys. You gave us Rupert Murdoch. And reality TV? Steve Irwin pioneered that by dangling his child in front of crocodiles.

If America is the enemy of civilization and reason, Australia is our retarded inbred brother who follows along.

[IdomeoreTew]

You're leaving forever?

[ExelePlavisseu]

Originally posted by Agathon
Are we not allowed to make claims now? Is the death penalty not popular in Texas? Is Texas not the most extreme representative of the death penalty in the US? That's not the part that represents the bandwagon fallacy, and you know it. The idea that you presented, that the D.P. is self-evidently wrong because most countries refrain from using the D.P., is the bandwagon arguement. I know that you have better reasons that that for why the death penalty is wrong. I just wanted to read them.

I would have thought it evident to every rational being that the Texan attitude towards punishment was backward. I've made plenty of anti-DP arguments in other threads, but I no longer see any point in wasting actual knowledge of the issue on the average Poly conservative (who have been immunized against reason). But there's still some common decency in condemning barbarism wherever it exists. Why don't you link to some of your arguments (or, better yet, why don't you link to (or recommend) some arguments from a real philosopher)? I don't recall reading your personal anti-DP arguments, and I'd be interested in seeing if there's anything new that hasn't been rehashed here ad nasuem. I know that Gepap and I had a lengthy debate about this a few years ago. If you'd like, I'll try to find it. I'll warn you though. We managed to argue for multiple pages without ad hominems. Reading through something like that may distress you or make you feel disoriented.