[dodsCooggipsedebt]

Originally posted by Pekka
The bulls death is acceptable. WTF?!

[nermise]

Yes. Bull's death is acceptable.

[orison]

Bullfighting

[seodiary]

Well, Thorgal, I said that because the last months a catalan politician Pilar Raola, I think thats the name, has been saying pretty much that on argentine tv

[Poohoppesmase]

Mmmm...For the sake of information, the bullfighter fights the bull BEFORE picador and banderillas too. In fairness, I'll note I've only witnessed Mexican bullfighting. That's the only reason I don't say you're full of crap.
IF you're citing Mexico, then you are certainly full of crap.

[Sellorect]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yes. Bull's death is acceptable. Did you toture small animals when you were a child?

[kaiayout]

Originally posted by Pekka
Yes. Bull's death is acceptable. But shouldn´t you be very pro gladiator fights between humans to (probable) death?

In bullfighting you stll have a very good chance for survival. In gladiator fights in the Arena however you know that probably either you or yur opponent don´t survive the fight.
It takes more manliness for a gladiator to know this and nevertheless make the decision to go out and fight.

In gladiator fights you also have both opponents making the conscious decision to do the fight (assuming that unlike during the roman era, all of the gladiators do it voluntarily [or more exactly because they´re paid well for it ]) whereas in bullfighting only the Torero might decie that he doesn´t feel well enough for the battle, whereas the bull is forced to fight no matter if he wants or not.

So why not being pro gladiator fights with melee weapons (till one of both gladiators is either dead, unconscious or gives up)?
It cannot get much manllier than this

[KojlinMakolvin]

The first phase of the fight is the matador facing the bull when it is fresh and uninjured.

After a number of passes the matador withdraws and the picador weakens the bull's neck muscle in the way Sloww's picture illustrates. Then banderilleros further weaken the neck muscle by throwing darts into it.

Now the matador returns. He provokes a series of charges so that he can show off his cape work. He must induce the bull to pass as close to his body as he can.

Now comes the climax of the fight. The matador must dominate the bull so as to induce it to stand still, front legs square on and with its head hanging down. The matador now approaches the bull from the front and leans in over the horns to drive his sword down through the weakened muscle, between the bull's shoulder blades and into its heart.

If well done the bull drops as if pole axed.

Typically it takes the matador several attempts. He is aiming at a target only a couple of inches in diameter and, at the moment the coup de grace is administered, all the bull has to do to gore the matador is to lift its head.

A cocky matador confident in his dominance of the bull proceeds with a degree of deliberation. Mostly they run in hurriedly.

The weakening of the neck muscle by the picadors and banderilleros is necessary because otherwise the sword would not penetrate easily enough.

You can find a detailed description in Hemingway's Death in the Afternoon. Which is a good read generally.

[Weislenalkata]

Just because it's a fair fight or dangerous for the matador, doesn't make it right, many gladiator fights in Rome were fair. Just because it's cultural doesn't make it right, "martyrdom" is cultural. Just because something is less horrible then you thought, doesn't mean it's not still horrible. I'll leave this fight to PiTA (mispelled on purpose) however as I can think of a lot worse things.

[yPuqQ248]

Speaking on the cruelty issue, if anyone thinks that what we do to animals for food and sport is cruel, you really should see what happens to them in their natural setting, not to justify what we do, but just to give you a perspective on what is cruel and what is not. I was watching a nature show, probably on Discovery, and a water buffalo had gotten stuck in a mud hole. A group of hyenas came across the buffalo and proceeded to eat the buffalo alive. Its cries were heartbreaking. I couldn't imagine the pain it was going through. The hyenas were not taking very large bites and the small wounds by themselves were not fatal to the bull, so only over a long time would the bull eventually die. Slaughtering cows for food and bullfighting sound incredibly merciful compared to this.

[rushiddink]

Originally posted by Shrapnel12
Speaking on the cruelty issue, if anyone thinks that what we do to animals for food and sport is cruel, you really should see what happens to them in their natural setting, not to justify what we do, but just to give you a perspective on what is cruel and what is not. I was watching a nature show, probably on Discovery, and a water buffalo had gotten stuck in a mud hole. A group of hyenas came across the buffalo and proceeded to eat the buffalo alive. Its cries were heartbreaking. I couldn't imagine the pain it was going through. The hyenas were not taking very large bites and the small wounds by themselves were not fatal to the bull, so only over a long time would the bull eventually die. Slaughtering cows for food and bullfighting sound incredibly merciful compared to this. I heard that those hyenas only got charged with buffaloslaughter.