[meencegic]

I haven`t been baptized. I`m the only Christian in my household...I`m 17, just converted in May...my mom isn`t Christian...so she wants me to wait to be baptized... and well...sometimes I go to her to discuss God and Jesus, and I get really excited (she gets annoyed and sends me away) . one time she said to me`, "Calm down and just live your life. What if there wasn`t a God afterall?" and I got scared because... Aren`t parents supposed to guide you? not plant seeds of doubt in your mind!! So I started to cry...One time We were debating about Mary being a virgin. And my mom said, "she`s not a virgin" and my sister agreed, but then something just came out of my mouth saying "Jesus was born of the Spirit and not the flesh..."(I`m wondering if that was the Holy Spirit) My sister and mother laughed at me. I didn't care.

What do you think of this situation?

[bZEUWO4F]

Hi Kayla ,

God has mercy on everyone and I believe this. Once you are baptised you recieve the Holy Spirit. I believe it is very important to be baptised, even Jesus was baptised.

However, I dont think it is very nice for your family to dismiss you like this. You are right, parents are supposed to guide you to believe and set you on the right path. Perhaps their not sure either. In answer to your question, YES, their is a God and He loves you so much.

You are seeking answers and you have come to the right group of people to guide you. I hope I have comforted you a little, someone will come soon better able to answer you, but I will pray for you Kayla, you pray too

God can see how much you love Him.

With Love in Christ
Angela

[Kneedycrype]

Hello Kayla, it may take some time as you are only 17 and still subject to your parents. I do believe the phrase you uttered was from the Holy Spirit, 'Jesus was born of the Spirit not of the flesh. In the creed of the Orthodox Church we recite the following:

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.


In fact the testimony you gave also has a direct correlation to your question on baptism.

The gospel of John 1.12-14 says:

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

The Lord Jesus Christ drives the point home (John 3.4-6)

Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

[perhilzit]

I haven`t been baptized.
What do you think of this situation?

The short answer is 'yes' you will need to get baptized. But you also have to honor your Mother. You have a dilemma, and arguin' with Mom ain't gonna fix it. Until you are old enough to legally take these decisions without parental consent and probably after that if you are still living under her roof, you will have to abide by her rules to some extent. You love your family and they love you, this is important, don't mess with it. It's even more important to know that God loves you too, unconditionally, and so, whether you are baptized or not, give Him the problem and the answer will come. I think Mom's advice to 'calm down' is probably good, go and sit quietly and pray rather than arguing with her, pray especially for her.

Now, remember that King David didn't have the benefits of baptism, yet strove always to obey God, yes he failed (far worse than you will), but always came back and repented, now he is called The Righteous David. Look at the example of Sarah, Abraham's wife, again no baptism, but what an example of dedication to God (and obedience to the lawful authority of her husband). The Emperor Constantine the Great, who legalized Christianity throughout the Roman Empire, was not baptized until he was dying in old age, yet today he is called a Saint, and Equal to the Apostles.

With God's grace, you will have a long life, and waiting a while to fully join the church will not seem long in retrospect. I speak from experience.

Finally, when you posted before, we started praying for you, and we have not stopped, please pray for us too.

Love,
Richard.

[Duseshoug]

Kayla,

Whenever I am asked this question (usually by people who are not Christians), I tell them the following (not quite in these words, but this is the substance of it): If one desires to participate in the life of God, here and now, one must be made a new creation in the waters of baptism. As fallen, death-bound human beings, we have no access to God on our own. Only by identification with Christ, Who in His birth, life, death, and resurrection reconciles us to God, do we have such access, and only through His Body, the Church, can we be identified with Christ. One is received into the Church through baptism (and chrismation).

I am not prepared to say, and I do not actually believe, that when Our Lord comes in glory He will condemn, say, an 8-year old Muslim youth who is killed by a roadside bomb, to the fires of Hell. But if God ultimately shows mercy upon him, and upon the millions of souls who didn't "have a chance," that doesn't diminish the imperative (at least for me) to know the only true God in the present life. It blew me away when I learned that our bodies are incensed for the same reason that Solomon's Temple was incensed-- namely, because the glory of God is present, here and now, in our mortal flesh. We know in part; we will know in full.

I am not in a position to counsel you as to how to deal with the resistance you're experiencing from your family. I am sure others will have more insight than I. Be sure, however, that I will remember you in my prayers.

In Christ,
Evan

[Abebpabeniemo]

Christ said you have to be baptised to be saved. The protestants I met always quote that the thief wasn't baptised but not all of us are in the thief's position
I then tell them but Christ said to follow Him and he was baptised how can you follow Him and not be baptised?

About your mother and sister situation, even in the old times during the persecution the pagan parents were against their children becoming Christian some were even martyred by their own father or mother so no not all parents guide their children to do the right thing. They do it accordingly to what they know and think is best. So you just keep going towards the faith and research into it. It is not good to discuss with them as at this point in time it be not good.

[AnIInWon]

When all is said and done, it is God who decides who is and who is not saved and whatever is lacking He makes up for us (since nothing that we do or have to offer is sufficient). The sacrament of Baptism is a vital and necessary element of successfully living a Christian life and of acquiring the grace of the Holy Spirit (which transforms us into the likeness of Christ and is in fact the agent of our salvation).

Fr David Moser

[SergeyMaikov]

I get really excited (she gets annoyed and sends me away) . one time she said to me`, "Calm down and just live your life. Your mother has a good sense of what is right when she says this. I know that when we find something beautiful and get all excited about it we want to share it, but at this point what we have still needs to grow. It is not our talking but our walking that will ultimately convince people of what has power for good. Our priest has told some of the students here who are new converts something very similar. Many of them also have trouble with their parents. With one young lady, a graduate student here at the university who just became a catechuman recently, her parents were against her becoming Orthodox. They asked her to wait at least a year before she made a final decision. So even though she is a full adult she honored their request and was attending our parish for a year before becoming a catechuman. God honors it when we respect our parents this way.

"Jesus was born of the Spirit and not the flesh..." Fr David, Isn't this statement liable to slip into problems with gnosticism? Don't we proclaim that Jesus was born of the Spirit and the flesh? This seems to me a dangerous statement.

[Kafuuil]

I do believe the phrase you uttered was from the Holy Spirit, 'Jesus was born of the Spirit not of the flesh. In the creed of the Orthodox Church we recite the following:

Who for us men and for our salvation
came down from heaven and was incarnate
of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary and became man.

Fr David, Isn't this statement liable to slip into problems with gnosticism? Don't we proclaim that Jesus was born of the Spirit and the flesh? This seems to me a dangerous statement.

Jesus Christ is indeed born in the flesh. The statement from the creed quoted above makes that point quite clearly. He Who is "Light of Light, True God of True God ... of one essence with the Father" ... "was incarnate ... and became man". This clearly informs us that Jesus Christ is indeed the God/man - fully God and fully man. The Virgin Mary did not give birth to a "spirit" nor did she give birth to a "man who later was infused with the Spirit of God". She gave birth to the incarnate God - God become man - the God/man Jesus Christ. To say that "Jesus was not born of the flesh" contradicts the Creed and is not Orthodox - and in fact is not even Christan.

Fr David

[iNYZgxNC]

"Jesus was born of the Spirit and not the flesh..." Just a thought but given the context could Miss Kayla Ali-Joseph have meant that Christ was conceived from the Holy Spirit rather than from man. i.e. She was not making a statement that Christ is only spirit but that the Theotokos was a virgin because the Holy Spirit overshadowed her not beacuse Joseph knew her. The born of being used to mean Christ was born beacuse of the Holy Spirit not the genetics from a man.

In Christ.
Daniel

[JamesTornC]

Just a thought but given the context could Miss Kayla Ali-Joseph have meant that Christ was conceived from the Holy Spirit rather than from man. i.e. She was not making a statement that Christ is only spirit but that the Theotokos was a virgin because the Holy Spirit overshadowed her not beacuse Joseph knew her. The born of being used to mean Christ was born beacuse of the Holy Spirit not the genetics from a man.

In Christ.
Daniel

Yes...That's what I meant. Jesus was in the flesh but born of the Spirit. Thanks, Daniel.

[Mumeseest]

I'm glad I could help. I think the confusion is beacuse many words can mean many things, so by saying born of the Spirit some people thought you meant that he was only spirit. I think due to might be better as it shows what you mean clearer.

Also I know what you mean by in the flesh but we have to be careful not to sound Nestorian. The Orthodox Church places a lot on precise words and meanings so that everyone has a clear view of each theological doctrine. I think what you mean is Christ is fully Man as well as fully God but that he was born beacuse of the Holy Spirit. Just incase there is any more confusion

In Christ.
Daniel,

P.S. I hope you do well and as others have said pray and wait. I would say look for an Orthodox church or two near you and email the priest he will be able to advice you. When you are ready you can then visit a church. We have to remember that being baptised means that one is united to Christ and also to his Church which is his body with Him as the head, so it is important to get to know both Christ and his Church for a while before committing to baptism.

[Thomas12400]

Just a thought but given the context could Miss Kayla Ali-Joseph have meant that Christ was conceived from the Holy Spirit rather than from man. i.e. She was not making a statement that Christ is only spirit but that the Theotokos was a virgin because the Holy Spirit overshadowed her not beacuse Joseph knew her. The born of being used to mean Christ was born beacuse of the Holy Spirit not the genetics from a man.

In Christ.

Daniel

Yes, this is what i sensed as well, which is the reason i gave those biblical quotes from the gospel of John. Im fully aware of the heresy of docetism.