[RagonaCon]

I have joined this group to try to cope and help my sister deal with the pain that is involved in having a son becoming a monk. She will from now on have an empty place at the table where once her son Tom used to sit, now he is called Athanasios and refuses to talk to his mother because she is not "following the faith". I would like to learn more about what is going on in his mind so I can gain some respect for him because all I have now is ..... well, I am not sure how I feel, this is the little boy who I used to hold on my lap, the child that I used to tell stories to while we waited for his father to come home from work. He is my nephew and I love him. But I feel very hurt when I know that he doesn't want to talk to me because I am not "following the faith". I feel great pain when I am told by him that he doesn't want to spend time with me or see me because he feels I will cause him to become "lost". and I can only imagine how much pain my sister must feel when her own son is telling her that he doesn't want to see her because she is a sinner. I need help to deal with the pain and that is why I joined this group. I welcome any dialogue that will help me accept my nephews choice and will help me feel better.

[Zysyewgg]

Dear Nick,

It's very difficult for anyone here to give advice but I'm sure we all feel your pain with you. Is your nephew a monk or a novice? I'll assume he is a monk. It seems to me there are two separate points here: your nephew's becoming a monastic, and his attitude to his family. The first could be viewed as a blessing in itself, but the second shows that something is not right in your nephew's spiritual demeanour. I should want to know if the superior or spiritual director of the monastery is aware of your nephew's attitude to his family. Can you talk about this with whoever in the monastery is the right person?

[somasideff]

Don't worry. He is becoming a monk based on his own self-will, and either he will crash and burn, or he will find humility and reconcile with his family and ask for forgiveness for treating them so badly. Better he direct his self-will for now into being a bull-headed, cock sure saint, than becoming a drug addict and criminal.

The other issue, regarding the role of his abbot, I don't want to touch with a ten foot pole, because what I might say might not be very constructive, plus, we only know one side of the story.

[ashleyjoseph]

I have encountered this strategy of monastic formation before so I do know that some spiritual fathers do not permit the new novice to have any contact with family for a period of time at the beginning of the monastic life. This has the effect of cutting off the novice from his past life and is emphatic in producing the novice's identity as part of the monastic community first and foremost - a more important relationship than even his own family of origin. I do not really know if this is the best course of monastic formation, however, it is one that some (especially in the US) have chosen to use. I find that while it may (emphasis on the may) produce positive results in the novice, there is a heavy cost to pay by the family (as you well know). Not being a monastic spiritual father, I would not presume to judge the wisdom and experience f the monastery, however, it seems to me that it would be a much smoother (if longer) transition for the family to be in a position to be supportive of the young man's desire for spiritual life.

So, don't take this rejection personally and don't assume that it is permanent. It may only be a period of adjustment for monastic life. No matter what, the young man will grow and develop and change and mature. This extreme position will most likely mellow with age - its just hard to wait for that mellowing to occur.

Fr David Moser

[Machater]

there is a great chapter from st Ignatius Branchianinov about the dangers from the obedience to a "wrong" elder .
i have it in Greek ,Nick,but not in English.
Greek archbishop Ieronimos said once that "priests should not become gurus"
from my humble experience,i know that many times the departure of a young man to become a monk has caused unbelievable pain and severe health problems to his family.
there is a lack of discernment in our days and this is more than obvious.

[nicegirlflor]

So, don't take this rejection personally

Fr David Moser

I agree with Father David. Also dear Nick, remember that the nephew that you held when he was little prays and will pray for your souls now and always. There are several stories in Orthodoxy about monastics and the biological family. For instance the monk who met an angel of God and asked him where he was going, and the angel said that 'since you are going to your family I am leaving them. I am the angel God ordered to take care of them, but now you will go there so there is no need for me." - please excuse the paraphrasing. The story of St. Symeon Stylitis is also something similar. He refused to come down from the pillar to embrace his mother. But after the mother passed away she revealed that she had entered Heaven because of God's mercy, through the prayers and intercessions of her son (St. Symeon) and through her good works. By the way she is also a saint and wanted also to see and embrace her son before departing to the Lord. And he refused to,

Try to pray dear Nick. Also for your sister and nephew. God will provide.

[DraidodaRip]

Ditto. The matter of grave concern seems to be the accusation that the novice has condemned his family. Christ came not to condemn but to save. The abbot may not know about this problem that has been created by the novice's statements.

Believe it or not, I have vain imaginings. And one of them is becoming a monk, which is complicated by the fact that I have a wife and adult children. So, would my wife have to be dead? If not, would I not be bound to my wife unless she enthusiastically agreed (as a way of getting rid of me perhaps!) And what would I tell my children and would it cause them grief? I really cannot imagine doing something for my own soul that would inevitably cause great grief to others.

So you see, my thoughts about what it would like to be a monk (I have met a number of monks, enjoy their company, learn from them, like them) are really a vanity on my part, at least as important a factor than any sincere desire for repentance. But, God can use what we intend for evil and turn it into something good.

And we don't know anything about the family here, and I don't want to know! But hypothetically, there may be some "issues" as the head shrinkers love to say.

But let's turn the issue around. I would be DELIGHTED if my children decided to become monastics. There is no more exciting, dangerous, productive occupation. I would want to be able to see them once in a while, but if it were the monastic rule not to, I would abide by that. I honestly think I would weep tears of joy if one of them were to find his (or her) way into monasticism.

[bashansasasasa]

Howdy Nick!

This appears to be a strategy taken from:

The Ladder of Divine Ascent
by: St. John Climacus

Step 3 (On exile or pilgramage)
#12:
"It is better to grieve our parents than the Lord. For He has created and saved us, but they have often ruined their loved ones and delivered them up to their doom."

Since I intend to become a monastic myself and my parents have not taken my conversion from Lutheranism to Orthodoxy very well, I will watch this thread with great interest.

I agree with the others, don't judge because you do not know whether this cutting off of communication was Tom's choice or whether it was imposed upon him by his superiors.

[lE3l6Lgn]

The great thing about the Fathers is that they don't mince words!!!!

[Poohoppesmase]

I read recently a young man joined Elder Ephraim in Arizona. His American, western thinking parents did not understand monasticism so much so they started a campaign to discredit the Elder, the Monastery and the Church that would "permit" a young impressionable young man to give up his "life" and go into seclusion behind the walls of a monastery in the deep desert. Hearing the man's story, after permission was given, he said his parents do not understand Monasticism. And he was right. We in the west do NOT understand monasticism.

If this were to play out in the Eastern countries, parents would be delighted their children wanted to serve the Lord. Here it is considered throwing away your life. How tragic. My wife knows my longings, but I can do nothing until she dies. Not that I want her to die...but she knows I long to be a monk. My family are protestants. They do not understand Orthodoxy. If I were to say I wanted to become a monk, they would try to talk me out of it. No, I have not shared my dreams with them. Pearls and swine and all that.

They do not understand nor do they care to. They would prefer to hold onto the earthly relationship than allow me my heart's desire. What did St. Peter say to the Chief Priest? What is better? to do God's will or listen to the will of men?

Support him. Offer intercession for him to his family. If he passes the novitiate then it was meant to be by God. If not, he will return home. Tell them to consider him on an extended job transfer in another country where they would have little communications with him anyway. If in 3 years he returns, swell. If not, by then they will be more accustomed to him being gone anyway and may have a better understanding of why.

Paul

I hope he prays for me THE worst of sinners while he is there.

[miel]

The title includes the word acceptance. A good practice to learn, regardless of whether we think that which we have to accept is good or bad. It's easy to accept good news, things that make us happy and comfortable and at ease, not a threat. There is no virtue in that kind of acceptance. Acceptance is kind of a beginning point for all of the other virtues.

[ebookinfo]

Most pleasant greetings to you, Nick. I will light a candle and offer prayers for your family today.

I also do not understand some aspects of the monastic life, even though I very much enjoy traveling to the Hermitage of the Holy Cross near me. I truly cannot understand the notion of forsaking our families- in such an extreme sense of removing all communication - for Christ loved and provided for His Blessed Mother unto the end.

And, if the reason for not communicating is that the family member is "not following the faith", then how much more do Orthodox Christians need to speak to them!

Again, I will pray for you and for your dear sister, how her heart must ache at hearing her son does not want to communicate with her or see her. I can only offer you this, as I have known painful trials in my life -

Do not beg God to take this from you- do not plead with Him, but thank Him for this trial. Ask Him to equip you for this trial and Praise Him that you may be drawn closer to our Creator through suffering. Wringing your hands and letting fear or anxiety grip your heart is a tool of our Enemy -

St. Ilias the Presbyter said, "Shaking a stick at dogs provokes their fury; forcing oneself to pray in purity provokes the fury of the demons". It's one of my favorite quotes because it helped me gain peace in a time when I was consumed with anger.

Peace to you-

[9rCR9hWL]

Dear Paul, your post shows such humility!

However for fairness' sake I have to say that it is not only the western, American mentality (whatever those words mean) that produces a negative attitude towards monasticism. There are people in traditionally Orthodox countries that display the same negative attitude. I think it is just a temptation like all of them. Plus, look at you, Owen, David (who I assume are made in America and west - again, whatever that means) who are not from traditionally Orthodox families. You have such a great attitude towards monasticism and wish that yourselves become monastics (!). I have seen, in the news sometime, reactions fit for tragedy plays, by people who were Orthodox for generations, just because their child decided to become monastic.

[Lafclaria]

Dear Paul ,i believe deeply that when and if ,God has chosen someone to wear the monastic gown then HE will talk to his parents' hearts and soften them.

I live in Athens,Greece.Near me there is a priest monk whose father has commited suicided ,just after he became a monk.And another one whose father had died from heart attack some weeks after his ordination.

and there are many cases like these.

st John Chrysostom didn't go to the monastery before his mother's death,because his beloved mother has asked him not to leave her alone.

st.Paul said to st Timothy:
If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.(Tim 1 5,8)

i insist that there is lack of discernment and i 'll add that some hegumens don't care really about their monks but they want just to concentrate blind fans around them.

[xanaxist]

Dear Nick,

May God give your family strength and comfort and understanding. Humbly, I suggest you purchase an icon for your sister similar to this:


and present it to her on Good Friday.

In Christ,
Antonio

[LasTins]

Dear Nick,

May God give your family strength and comfort and understanding. Humbly, I suggest you purchase an icon for your sister similar to this:


and present it to her on Good Friday.

In Christ,
Antonio

With detailed reverent explanation of it, yes? Since non of the family is Orthodox, they may pull away from a Holy Icon much as I did as a protestant and could cause more harm than good. Communication, as others have said, goes along way to understanding.

[TOPERink]

It's one thing, for the sake of the future, eternal life and a desired everlasting reunion with family there not to see (as a monastic) one's family (or friends, for that matter) on earth.

But this case is another thing. Is the monk prohibited from traveling to his family? That isn't so grave as monks are not generally advised to travel, for the sake of their particular line of work--which is prayer for the world. But if his parents are prohibited from seeing him, that is another matter, and judgement on that requires more knowledge of the situation.

Nick, are you allowed to go to the monastery and at least see him? If you can't talk with him, will the abbot at least treat you with kindness? If they don't at least treat you with kindness, I can't think of what kind of monastery this is. (Although some monasteries in America leave much to be desired where hospitality is concerned.)

Eric

[SantaClaus]

I have joined this group to try to cope and help my sister deal with the pain that is involved in having a son becoming a monk. She will from now on have an empty place at the table where once her son Tom used to sit, now he is called Athanasios and refuses to talk to his mother because she is not "following the faith". I would like to learn more about what is going on in his mind so I can gain some respect for him because all I have now is ..... well, I am not sure how I feel, this is the little boy who I used to hold on my lap, the child that I used to tell stories to while we waited for his father to come home from work. He is my nephew and I love him. But I feel very hurt when I know that he doesn't want to talk to me because I am not "following the faith". I feel great pain when I am told by him that he doesn't want to spend time with me or see me because he feels I will cause him to become "lost". and I can only imagine how much pain my sister must feel when her own son is telling her that he doesn't want to see her because she is a sinner. I need help to deal with the pain and that is why I joined this group. I welcome any dialogue that will help me accept my nephews choice and will help me feel better.

Dear Niko,

Ofcourse your sister is a sinner--we ALL are, and so is your nephew! I am surprised that your nephew, as a monk, does not know this.

Perhaps his hurtful words are because of the judgemental attitude and intolerance which the over zealous neophyte to faith often espouses. This even happens often time when one converts to a new faith...the convert says painful things to his family and distances himself.

I hope that this is not the attitude of his spiritual elder, though in the beginning of the monastic life, I can understand having to keep a bit of a distance until the person has acclimated. It can be very hard on the peace of mind and soul of a child to have his parents and family putting pressure on him about his decision--especially if they don't understand and try to respect it. Greek parents can often be very controlling, and having seen this, I can say that there is nothing as off putting to an adult child-parent relationship than having over controlling parents. One very wise older lady on a Greek television talk show put it well when she said that if we really love our children, we will not control them, but love what (in this case the monastic life) ,and who, they love.

On the other hand, we Greeks have a TERRIBLE attitude towards family members becoming religious of any sort-- even priests-- and we should be ashamed of ourselves for that. It should be considered a blessing to have someone in your family that has joined the religious life, and it is a blessing to have a family member that will pray for you.

( Personally, I can say that if it were not for the prayers of holy monastics, many of us who turn to them in time of need, would not have had our desperate prayers answered...let's not also forget that our beloved St. Nektarios of Aegina, who was and is a source of great miracles and consolation to us in our needs, was also a monk)

Another thing I have noticed is that in our macho Greek society, I often think it is the fact that the man has chosen the celibate life that troubles his family more than anything else.

One might ask oneself, if this son was to go to a far away land where I could not see him, but he were successful and making money, and had a wife and children, would I be as troubled?

These are just some thoughts to ponder. Forgive me if they come across as harsh in any way.

God bless you and may you and your family all find the peace and love of Christ for and with each other,
Alice

[Dogxzysl]

Paul said: "Since non of the family is Orthodox, they may pull away from a Holy Icon much as I did as a protestant and could cause more harm than good. Communication, as others have said, goes along way to understanding."

I don't know - Nick posted that he is Greek Orthodox under his membership, so maybe some of the family is Orthodox.

And, I concur with Eric above. It is one thing to leave your family to become a monastic - to answer God's call to this vocation, and quite another to cut off from your family without kindness, gentleness and love - the fruit of the Spirit's call.

[hexniks]

I have encountered this strategy of monastic formation before so I do know that some spiritual fathers do not permit the new novice to have any contact with family for a period of time at the beginning of the monastic life. This has the effect of cutting off the novice from his past life and is emphatic in producing the novice's identity as part of the monastic community first and foremost - a more important relationship than even his own family of origin. I do not really know if this is the best course of monastic formation, however, it is one that some (especially in the US) have chosen to use. I find that while it may (emphasis on the may) produce positive results in the novice, there is a heavy cost to pay by the family (as you well know). Not being a monastic spiritual father, I would not presume to judge the wisdom and experience f the monastery, however, it seems to me that it would be a much smoother (if longer) transition for the family to be in a position to be supportive of the young man's desire for spiritual life.

So, don't take this rejection personally and don't assume that it is permanent. It may only be a period of adjustment for monastic life. No matter what, the young man will grow and develop and change and mature. This extreme position will most likely mellow with age - its just hard to wait for that mellowing to occur.

Fr David Moser

How long will this mellowing take, ten years? twenty years? By then if he ever contacts us again, He will look down on us because we are not worthy of talking to him. Will he still love us after all that time? Who will take care of my sister when she is old and gray? Why does following the lord mean that you have to abandon your family? I know a lot of people who live a pure life. They take care of their parents, they have a normal job and contribute to society. They make this world a better place by taking an active role. And they also prey. how can one mans prayer count more to god than another mans prayer. We are all gods children, he loves us all the same. and he hears our prayers the same. You don't have to become a monastic to have your prayers heard. And you don't have to pray for six hours either. It only takes me five minutes to pray, and god hears me.

I see Tom as a man who is guilty of neglect towards the people that need him most. No, Worse than neglect because he actually told us that we would be a bad influence on him. Needless to say, my pain has turned to anger.