[colmedindustry]

Dear Chris,

However, I do not feel comfortable with the praying and the religious side of the monastery. Is there anything there for me? This sounds a bit like deciding to become an astronaut, but not really liking stars or long journeys! Perhaps you don't mean this though...good luck with the searching, I hope you find what you're looking for.

In Christ
Byron

[Gintovtosik]

I'm looking for a monastery that would be ideal for me. It is always best to visit a monastery or monasteries to test whether one has an actual calling or not.

In Christ- Fr Raphael

[Centurnion]

Chris wrote:

I'm looking for a monastery that would be ideal for me. I absolutely adore the ascetic lifestyle - an isolate alone in the study with heaps of books who then wanders outside to observe the natural world.

However, I do not feel comfortable with the praying and the religious side of the monastery. Is there anything there for me? Welcome Chris to monachos.net!

Regarding your post, I think what you are describing is more in lines with philosophy than monastasism. In Orthodoxy, there can be no separation between prayer and the aescetic life. In fact, ascetisism is merely a tool to enchance prayer and communion with God, not to just 'wander outside to observe the natural world'. In fact, the idea is to go beyond the natural world and into the spiritual. The Threefold Way of purification, illumination, and theosis has ascetisism at the begining and first stage. The goal, rather, is theosis which involves much prayer. Forgive me if I offend you, but I think you may have misunderstood the goal of a monastic.

Please, do not allow my words to discourage you, but rather encourage you to learn more about this most blessed calling. What I have found to help me understand this way of life (as best as I can) is from the study of the lives of saints, especially the modern day elders of Mount Athos. May God bless your journey.

[auctionlover]

Chris writes:

"I'm looking for a monastery that would be ideal for me. I absolutely adore the ascetic lifestyle - an isolate alone in the study with heaps of books who then wanders outside to observe the natural world.

"However, I do not feel comfortable with the praying and the religious side of the monastery. Is there anything there for me?" Chris, you're kidding, right?

[maliboia]

Dear Chris,

If I were an abbot of a monastery and you sent those lines as an introduction in a letter, I would say, like Fr. Raphael, 'come and see.' Thank God I am not an abbot though, for it is truly a martyrdom, a very heavy cross.

Antonios gets down to the matter at hand very well.

Generally, a potential monastic in Orthodoxy moves through distinct stages, dependant upon his/her spiritual growth and the discernment of the Spiritual Father/Mother, and since it is a communal life, the members of the monastery as well. It is not a race, having nothing to do with the Olympics as we know them today. Though both the word race, as in running (found in St. Paul) and asceticism come from the struggle which one witnesses in those who forsake virtually everything, in the case of the Olympics, for sport.

Our teachers in monasticism who have tread this way before us, commonly referred to as Fathers or Mothers of the Church, are in unison about the need for a novice to begin his/her life as a monastic in community life.

Very, very rare are the monastics who begin as hermits, though there are cases, rather people who are blessed to pursue this route. Personally, in over thirty years as a monk, I know of only one person so blessed, a truly remarkable person.

The main raison d'etre of Christian monasticism is Worship which leads to theosis of which Antonios speaks and this is most ideally expressed with others. The ideal monastery usually turns out to be the one we would not have chosen if we knew beforehand what is involved in the day to day life.

Jobs, chores, (obediences) are handed out, and invariably until the monastic heart, through the grace of the Holy Spirit changes, are like rolling a boulder up a mountain. It takes time and grace, after the initial 'bloom' wears off, to find the paradisiacal nature of the monastery God has so mercifully called us to.

The Spiritual Father of my Spiritual Father, Saint Silouan the Athonite (+1938) lived his entire monastic life within the Monastery proper (close to forty years). His disciple upon the repose of his Staretz (Geron, Elder) asked the blessing to live as a hermit. The Elders of the Monastery reply was simple: if Fr. Silouan attained such heights of grace in the monastery, why do you feel it necessary to leave and live alone? Is the monastery not good enough for you? (I am paraphrasing.)

Also the monastic life entails a tremendous fight with the Devil, usually at first manifest by thoughts (logismoi). These can be truly colossal in nature, even at times quite terrifying. Thus, woe to the monastic who enters such a way of life unprepared by years of communal life.

I live as a hermit, but this blessing came after twenty-five years in community life.

May God bless your pilgrimage.

[phernikas]

Dear Chris,

As Seraphim has so ably posted, there's a lot more to the ascetic life of monasticism, than just being in a monastery. However, the "living apart" of the monastic -even though it be in community- is preceeded by heeding the call of Jesus to "..come apart and be ye separate." Without receiving the gift of God's grace and forgiveness in the Lord Jesus Christ, success in the life of asceticism means only that you've mastered how to live a severe lifestyle. It is impossible to serve God without being yoked to Him, and we cannot be yoked to God apart from being yoked to His Son, Jesus. We cannot be yoked to Jesus without confessing our sins, repenting of them, and receiving through grace, into our hearts, the Redeemer of our souls, Jesus the Son of God.

We pray quite often, and for good reason; "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God have mercy on me the sinner."

a sinful and unworthy servant

[Idorsearogele]

Chris,

If you mean you would like to visit a monastery, then, of course, you would be welcomed (and you do not need to be a Christian).

[ZESINTERS]

Dear Chris,

As a person not yet an Orthodox Christian, and as a preface I must ask your forgiveness, for what follows is pure speculation, that is, what is said regarding your person.

Orthodox monastic life revolves around and is centred upon Christ - His words, His commandment, His Way, Life and Truth.

Without this absolute conversion of the heart, Orthodox monasticism is out of the question.

There are other monastic traditions in the major faiths, which, while I do not personally recommend, might encompass something of what you mention in your original post.

But quite honestly, your post suggests a person seeking a Thoreau, Walden Pond, type of existence.

In frank terms, Orthodox monasticism does and will for a novice involve the, perhaps, slow - but certain crucifixion of the human individual you are now, until the flower of the person, hypostasis, blossoms forth.

God has His own method and time for each soul regarding this. That is why we have no time plan. One does not take simple vows after a certain number of years, nor solemn vows after a number of years have passed since the pronouncing of simple vows. (Here I am using Roman Catholic terminology.)

Orthodox Christian monasticism involves both the nurturing of the heart and paradoxically the crushing of the ego-centred heart. God alone knows the time for each person, whether monastic or lay. But rest assured, before the Resurrection, lies the sometimes protracted period of Gethsemane.

Often the Gethsemane period will last years, years of the desert, of the seeming absence of God's love and presence. The stronger the ascetic heart that God alone ascertains, the longer can be the desert experience.

Essential to this, is the Orthodox concept of Holy Obedience, without which there is no monastic life. Simply put, it is the laying down and death of 'your' idea as to how things should unfold.

Thus, purely on the surface of your first post in this thread, I must be honest - anyone entering a monastery seeking the fulfilment solely of their own will, ultimately departs.

Monastic life is not dissimilar to guerilla warfare. You must be prepared to die, and in the Orthodox sense, die to yourself. The stronger the self-will, the more fierce are the flames encountered.

A person determined to follow his/her idea of how things should be, will find those false idols, one by one smashed against the Love of Christ, Who seeks our regeneration, not the continuation of our selfish desires which lead humankind to certain death.

I do not intend to dampen what could be the beginning of a true monastic calling, but whether married or monastic, you will be crowned with the crown of martyrdom.

To follow Orthodoxy is to follow Christ. Before the Resurrection is the waterless desert, 'forty years' of wandering without, it would seem, a sign along the way. Only in hindsight does the Orthodox Christian, married or monastic, see the incredible beauty, bathed in suffering/joy, all the way along the pilgrimage to Christ.

May God guide your steps.

[Angelinaaiiiiiiiii]

dear bro. chris,

may be u mean something else u only know from your expression:

an isolate alone in the study with heaps of books who then ...However, I do not feel comfortable with the praying and the religious side of the monastery... may u not see the true simple and most deep face of prayer, if u read and study only what the kind of study u mean,

the true study will lead u to prayer life in its deep meaning

st. Isaac say we can pray during studying and reading as this is part of ascetic life which help to separate from the world and be with god and this is the prayer.

also, st. basil in his life he lived the prayer life and the study

[bF8CCmmr]

What dangers would that be Efthymios? Not that it really matters. I'm beginning to sense that the monastic life is far more religious than I imagined initially.

[JennaJJxoxoxo]

"I'm beginning to sense that the monastic life is far more religious than I imagined initially." This is a good start, as the Lord has granted you insight, by this, into the nature of your own imaginings. It should go without saying that God's thoughts are infinitely above ours; and that our best "imaginings" of Him, and life with Him, are most often gross "mis-conceptions" at best. As plainly intimated by Fr. Seraphim, Orthodox monastic life is about life in Christ; through union with God, and thus thinking and living God's thoughts, as opposed to our own. This requires forsaking our own thoughts, and imaginings, obviously, that we might plunge ourselves into the mind of God; which some have described as the Great "Unknown" and "Unfathomable" Abyss. In this sense, Orthodox spiritual (monastic) life is not "far more religious", as you imagined it, but true religion in its highest and purest expression (as I understand or conceive it to be).

To answer your other question, though, within the Orthodox world, some cults have sprung up disguised as Orthodox monasteries; so the warning, as I understood it, was meant to indicate that not all Orthodox monasteries are what they make out or pretend to be. So be wise a serpent in discerning between the two!

[YTmWSOA5]

I stand firmly behind my previous post here #88 & #89.

By the way, this is an Orthodox Board, thus links to hermity.com are extremely unwise.

Though the asceticism per se appears similar, the metaphyics are quite different.

An Orthodox monastic gives all their life to Christ.

Web sites which host a variety of hermits from across the centuries and across various major/minor Faiths are not helpful.

They cause confusion amongst those who have not lived Orthodox Christian monastic life, whether it be communal or as a hermit, which as I stated is most generally, a later stage, taken only with the blessing, never without the blessing, of one's Spiritual Father/Mother.

To single handedly enter the hermit life, without the blessing, is to open the door to a veritable host of 'friendly' demons. Instead of a life of solitude, one spends every waking moment fighting hosts of demons, and every sleeping moment, fighting them in dreams. Definitely not a solitary life!

[LeslieMoran]

Not desiring to insist or believe that I, personally, have some extraordinary insight into monastic life, let me quote from our Blessed Saint Silouan, reposed at St. Panteleimon Monastery, Mount Athos, in the year of our Lord, September 11th/24th, 1938 - (this ties in, I believe, with the excellent postings of Nun Theopesta on the thread 'The True Face of Monasticism).

"CONCERNING MONKS"

"There are people who say that monks ought to be of some use in the world, and not eat bread they have not toiled for; but we have to understand the nature of a monk's service and the way in which he has to help the world.

"A monk is someone who prays for the whole world, who weeps for the whole world; and in this lies his main work.

"But who is it constrains him to weep for the whole world?

"The Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, incites him. He gives the monk the love of the Holy Spirit, and virtue of this love the monk's heart forever sorrows over the people because not all men are saved. The Lord Himself so grieved over people that He gave Himself to death on the Cross. And the Mother of God bore in her heart a like sorrow for men. And she, like her beloved Son, desired with her whole heart the salvation of all.

"The same Holy Spirit the Lord gave to the Apostles, to our holy Fathers and to the pastors of the Church. This is how we serve the world. And this is why neither pastors of the Church nor monks should busy themselves with secular mattters but should seek to be like the Mother of God, who in the Temple, in the 'Holy of Holies', day and night pondered the law of the Lord and continued in prayer for the people...

"...The man who lives in the world prays little, whereas the monk prays constantly. Thanks to monks, prayer continues unceasing on earth, and the whole world profits, for through prayer the world continues to exist; but when pray fails, the world will perish.

"...But if a monk be lukewarm and indifferent, and has not arrived at a state wherein his soul continually contemplates the Lord, then let him wait upon pilgrim travellers and assist with his labours those who live in the world. This, too, is pleasing to God. But rest assured it is not monastic life by a long way.

"A monk must wrestle with his passions, and with God's help vanquish them. At times he rests happy in the Lord, and abides, as it were, with God in paradise, but at others he weeps for the whole world, since his desire is for all men to be saved.

"...Myself, I am not worthy to be called a monk. I have spent over forty years in the monastery and count myself among those at the start of their novitiate: but I know monks who live close to God and to the Mother of God. The Lord is so close to us - closer than the air we breathe. Air must pass through the body to reach the heart, whereas the Lord lives within the heart of man: 'I will dwell in them and walk in them...And I will be their Father, and they shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord.' (cf. II Cor. vi:16-18).

"Here lies our joy God is with us and in us.

"Do all men know this? Alas, not all but only those who have humbled themselves before God and put off their own wills, for God resists the proud, and dwells but in the lowly heart. The Lord rejoices when we are mindful of His mercy and seek to be like Him in our humility..." - St. Silouan, pgs.407-409.

Without any desire to disparage ascetics of other Traditions, amongst whom I have lived, one never witnesses spiritual weeping. In both Mahayana and Hinyana Buddhist monasteries and equally in Hindu monasteries one witnesses incredible asceticism - often a measure of asceticism far above contemporary asceticism in the Christian Orthodox world (generally speaking) but the entire focus is different - very generally speaking, in Buddhism the personal self is an illusion which causes suffering and thus the suffering must be allieviated by following the Eightfold Path, and in Hinduism, in its purest form there is no individual created hypostasis, rather the hypostasis is covered by illusion, 'maya' and is in fact the SELF, there is thus no real existential separation between the self (created hypostasis) and the SELF (uncreated, impersonal or personal).

[Sipewrio]

Dear Marlene,

No need to apologise. I quite enjoyed poking around the site.

As Terentius said: "Humanus sum, nihil humanum a me alienum puto." I am a human, and I do not consider anything human as alien to me.

[mralabama]

"By the way, this is an Orthodox Board, thus links to hermity.com are extremely unwise.

Though the asceticism per se appears similar, the metaphyics are quite different."

I apologize for mentioning this site - I assumed it would be filtered if the moderator did not approve. Alas, at times it is good to see what's around.

(And as an aside: we don't edit out bits of posts - posts are either approved or not based on the Terms of Use. The only time a post is 'edited by admin' prior to posting is when a URL is so long that it distorts the layout of the screen, in which case it is turned into a hyperlink before posting.)

[viagsjicguara]

For those of us newbies trying to figure out this Orthodoxy thing--is there a "concordance" so to speak on the Fathers?

Hello Doug ~ While I'm not sure such a tool exists, there are a few smaller and larger compendiums or anthologies which are helpful; two sets of which are listed below:-

1 - The Early Christian Fathers
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/019...g=UTF8&s=books

2 - The Later Christian Fathers
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/019...g=UTF8&s=books

3 - The Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...g=UTF8&s=books

4 - The Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 2
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...g=UTF8&s=books

5 - The Faith of the Early Fathers, Vol. 3
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/081...books&n=283155


Apologies to Matthew for the above mess. I need a quick tutorial on how to format the above on this new system. Thanks!

[GDRussiayear]

Dear Doug,

Christ is Risen!

You can purchase the Blessed Theophylacts' commentaries which I think represent a wonderful concordance of the Fathers, much is available online or the books can be purchase quite inexpensively. At the link below you can click on a particular passage.

http://www.chrysostompress.org/expla.../index_pascha/

http://www.chrysostompress.org/expla...ecost_matthew/

"This classic Orthodox commentary of the New Testament was written about the year 1100 A.D. by a brilliant and saintly Byzantine Churchman. His commentary has remained a primary text of New Testament interpretation throughout the Orthodox world of Greece, Russia, Serbia, Bulgaria, and Romania. Blessed Theophylact distills the teaching of the earlier Church Fathers, especially Saint John Chrysostom, in language that is profound, powerful and direct."

In Christ,

Matthew Panchisin

[oemcheapdownload]

Dear Members.

Looking back, and alas, hindsight is always 20/20 I must apologize for my 'distilled evening newsbroadcast' approach.

It is quite true, as Fr. Ambrose pointed, out that hermity. is worth a look. I love all monastics, of whatever Faith, and those who seemingly have no monasticism, for example, within Judaism, an extraordinary 'monastic' tradition exists- namely that of the Hasidism.

While in Romania I made an especial pilgrimage to the home of Elie Wiesel. He received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986. I had read, his first book, "Night" in my teen years. His home in Sighet, Romania, was at the time of epoch of his tale, in present day Hungary. In a single summer of 1944 the entire Jewish population of Hungary was deported to the Death Camps of the Nazis'.

It would be quite a feat to read all his books, let alone scholarly articles. I have made a fair dent over the years.

Our eldest Nun, who reposed at the age of 100, had in her library, the two volume set of the Early and Later Hasidic Fathers, by Martin Buber. She loved those two volumes dearly and found much benefit therein.

Elie Wiesel writes in "Night",

'...One day I asked my father (Elie was twelve) to find me a master who could guide me in my studies of Kabbalah. "You are too young for that. Maimonides tells us that one must be thirty before venturing into the world of mysticism, a world fraught with peril. First you must study the the basic subjects, those you are able to comprehend."

'..."There are no Kabbalists in Sighet," my father would often tell me.'

'...I succeeded on my own in finding a master for myself in the person of Moishe the Beadle.

'He had watched me one day as I prayed at dusk.'

'"Why do you cry when you pray?" he asked...

'"I don't know," I answered, troubled.

'I had never asked myself that question. I cried because...because something inside me felt the need to cry...'

I guess I was quite the sight, standing solitary, walking around the corner house. Perhaps, the people were wondering what an Orthodox monk was doing, at the former house of a Jew.

Strangely, that very day, all the money donated to me, by the Brotherhoods of the Holy Mountain was stolen.

The pockets of my podrasnik are very deep. I was at the train station purchasing a ticket to Baie Mare, another local town in this beautiful, almost untouched province of Romania.

When I exited the train station, by habit, I checked my pockets. I re-checked my pockets. Suddenly, I was poorer than any Romanian in Sighet. I had not a penny to my name.

Within unknown seconds over 400 US Dollars had been taken from my deep pockets. Yet, I felt nothing, I was aware of no one touching me.

Since I know French, Romanian came quickly to me. When I stayed at the home of local peasants, after a few days, if I felt it was the proper atmosphere, I told my story of emerging from the train station without a ticket because the lady teller knew neither French nor could comprehend my broken Romanian and all my money stolen.

Invariably, everyone I spoke to felt I was a fool.

After all, did not the Jews betray Christ? My sudden poverty was a punishment. So often I heard: "The best thing to happen to Romania was Hitler and then Communism." I was astonished. "Romania is free of the Jews because of Hitler."

Thus, I entered the bewildering world of Romania. Wondrous in its Orthodoxy, frightening in its pride of being free of "those who betrayed Christ".

I should not have so readily discounted the suggestion to have a look at hermity.

For one never knows the manner of our Lord knocking at the door of our heart.

[SonicPs]

As to the original question...Since my youth I have been enamoured of the monastic life. Or my own perception of it. However, I knew that would not be because I was not a Christian. Over the years my interest in Monasticism continued and reading the Autobiography of one such man, started me on the path toward Orthodoxy. I've been Orthoodx for 4 1/2 years!

Seven Storey Mountain by Fr. Thomas Merton.

Chris, You may not be Christian...yet. But The Lord works in wonderous ways.

Christ is Risen!
Raphael

[RIjdrVs3]

Thomas Merton is, of course, multi-faceted, and he himself struggled with the legacy of "Seven Story Mountain" for it had been heavily edited by the Monastery and is rather bland compared to what he later had published when he 'broke' his self-accepted shackles. This is not to diminish the gift that one finds in this book.

His Journals, are an amazing read. Even in his 'I am towing the line (because the authorities forewarned me)' phase, "; "Seeds of Contemplation" has great value.

His poetry, for me, except the one about his brother, is so-so.

I have somewhere, probably in England, a gift, of what was truly one of his most amazing mediums of expression - photography. A pilgrim who taught me how to weave baskets, when I lived as a hermit in Shropshire, England, gave a gift given to him, an actual first-take photo of Mertons', also signed by him.

He corresponded with Father Sophrony. Fr. Sophrony, himself, showed me the letters. He loved Athos, though never managed a visit, and he had deep love for Orthodoxy.

When he was allowed to live as a hermit what strikes one is not only his faithful adherence to the Rule of Prayer, but the freedom, given by Gethesame Monastery, to express himself finally in all facets, good and bad.

This is, for me, the especial value of his 'Journals'. They are a wonderful, fascinating insight of a monk who through his art, expressed the Merton that he knew himself to be.

In India I met one of the three Abbots who were at the Bangkok Conference when he reposed, and who signed the "Death Certification" - what struck me about all this, was that within the Roman Catholic Church, verified by this Cistercian Abbot, was present a strong opinion, 'he got what what he deserved, his unusual death is testimony to his wandering soul and betrayal of the Roman Catholic Church'.

This is unfair and unfortunate. Rather he dared to write of that which moved his heart. In this, I personally find no fault.