[ScosyGissiok]

Well it's a long story and won't go right into the details of what happened because it would be a rather long read so long story short my clutch is pretty stiff and allot harder to use then normal clutches. It's been like that since I bought it and have gotten used to it. Yesterday when reversing out of my mums drive way I crunched the gears when shifting into reverse. I thought it was an error on my part so did the natural thing and put it back to neutral and tried again making sure the clutch was hitting the floor. Well it crunched again.

The clutch however did not feel any different then it normally does until later on that day when I went to get some Chinese and my clutch just suddenly felt completely different whilst driving. It became kinda shaky like something was about to break and it wasn't as stiff. Though I was still able to change gears without any problems I did my best to not change gears as often and drove slower and took longer time before shifting (normally I would shift to 4th gear at 50km/h but I shifted to 4th at 60km/h and took my time getting there by accelerating slower)

Anyways I took a further look today and when the engine is off the clutch feels fine. As soon as the engines on the clutch would become shaky. I can hold the clutch in and shift between all 5 gears without hassle but when shifting into reverse it crunches every 2 out of 3 times (Doesn't always crunch). When I release the clutch the engine sounds fine, when I push the clutch in the engine changes tune and it's like you can hear a kinda clacking sound. Problem is is that it's not always like this as when I turned the engine off and back on the clutch felt fine and no difference to when it's normal but 10-20 seconds later it just changed again.

So was wondering if someone could point out where the problem could possibly lie. I'm really hoping the clutch isn't going out on me because it would cost a ton of money to fix (roughly $1000 I've been told) and I would be better off just buying another car as I'm not paying for something that expensive when the car itself only cost me $1500. Especially considering I have rego to pay next month which will cost another $900.

[ppfpooghn]

Kinda sounds like you have snapped your clutch plate. What type of car is it? Maybe check and tighten your clutch cables and if it's hydraulic check the fluid levels and bleed the lines. Clutches can be expensive to fix in general but if you do it yourself it's not too expensive.

[ScosyGissiok]

Kinda sounds like you have snapped your clutch plate. What type of car is it? Maybe check and tighten your clutch cables and if it's hydraulic check the fluid levels and bleed the lines. Clutches can be expensive to fix in general but if you do it yourself it's not too expensive.

It's a Mitsubishi Lancer. 1993 model, 1.8L.

I've recently replaced the master cylinder for the clutch due to the old one having a fault and leaking fluid (dad was driving it at the time it faulted). It's been bled twice to make sure we got all the air bubbles out of it but Tony (My pop) says I should probably do it a 3rd time to be even more sure.

It's hydraulic (Well I couldn't seen any cables for it) and the fluid levels are good. Before I changed the master cylinder the fluid levels would drop to almost nothing after a small drive but with the new one I changed it a few months ago and still good fluid levels.

And I haven't a clue what a clutch plate is but will look into it ASAP.

[ScosyGissiok]

So what's an easy way to check if it's the clutch plate?

[ppfpooghn]

I believe the sound you are hearing is the clutch plate (the clutch), ticking and clanking against the gearbox. I can't be too sure though and I don't think there is an easy way to check without taking the gearbox out. Having just replaced the master cylinder sounds like it could have something to do with the hydraulics though. Are you a member of the NRMA or know someone that is? I'd imagine those guys could tell you in no time.

[ScosyGissiok]

Hmm, I've been told it could also be the thrust race bearing or something or the clutch plate like you said. Moved my car out front today and it was shaking a bit when accelerating slowly.

Would I be better of just buying a clutch kit and fixing the problem up myself (with help from friends with experience of cause) instead of fixing up one thing and finding out it's another thing that's causing the problems. I've been told I can just drop the gearbox out from underneath my car without having to remove the entire engine which is a good thing I suppose.

[ppfpooghn]

If you know people that are a bit cluey then I think your best bet would be to remove the gearbox and have a look to see what's broken then you can make the judgement as whether it's worth fixing or just scraping it.

[ScosyGissiok]

mmk, will probably pull out the gearbox tomorrow and have a look and see what damage has been done before I go out and start buying stuff.

[ketNavatutt]

wise move m8. ive been removing parts from my rx7 vert in preparation of engine swap. goin to a 305 v8 lol, , but relevance is, 2 weeks before i decided this, i bought a radiator for it, ( needed) and tehn discovered coolant seals were blown. , then i decide to transplant in an engine the radiator more than liekly will not support

[HottBrorb]

Your throwout bearing could indeed be bad. Its possible. It could also be a worn pressure plate or flywheel. In eithercase it requires that you remove the transmission to check it out.

If you are lucky your pressure plate is just worn and could do with a surfacing. Or it might need replacement, in which case you have to replace the clutch and throwout bearing a the same time.

wise move m8. ive been removing parts from my rx7 vert in preparation of engine swap. goin to a 305 v8 lol, , but relevance is, 2 weeks before i decided this, i bought a radiator for it, ( needed) and tehn discovered coolant seals were blown. , then i decide to transplant in an engine the radiator more than liekly will not support

Can I ask why a 305 and not a 350? 350's are a dime a dozen at JY's. LT1's are getting quite cheap as well.

[Teprophopay]

BEFORE!!! you start the job, I strongly advise picking up a workshop manual for the car - it'll warn you of any little peculiarities of the car - whatever you do, make sure the engine is SECURE before unbolting the gearbox, you're using stands, etc.

From the symtoms, sounds a lot like the friction plate is breaking up - could also be a cracked pressure plate diaphram or pressure plate ring, though.

[ScosyGissiok]

BEFORE!!! you start the job, I strongly advise picking up a workshop manual for the car - it'll warn you of any little peculiarities of the car - whatever you do, make sure the engine is SECURE before unbolting the gearbox, you're using stands, etc.

From the symtoms, sounds a lot like the friction plate is breaking up - could also be a cracked pressure plate diaphram or pressure plate ring, though.

Got a car manual, bought one late last year and it cost me $60[thumbdown]. We will be putting the car on stands and will have support for the engine underneath to support it's weight.

[feqlmwtuqx]

Just because this was recommended for my truck, here's something to try. . .

Turn the car on, put it in neutral. Let the clutch out for around 30 seconds (to ensure flywheel is up to speed, etc), then push the clutch in for 5 seconds, then try to put the car in reverse after 5 seconds. If it still grinds, your clutch isn't fully disengaging for whatever reason (could just need adjusted, could be that something is warped). Most transmissions don't have a synchro on reverse, so it will grind because the gear doesn't synch to the speed of the crankshaft, unlike your forward gears that do have a synchro and won't necessarily grind if the clutch doesn't fully disengaged. That's why when you're going forward, you don't have to cram your clutch to the floor like you do with reverse when you shift. The synchros will ensure that the gears are going as fast as the crankshaft. That's why some cars/trucks, you really only need the clutch for 1st. . .if you time it right, you can cram it into 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and not need the clutch at all. Of course, if you don't get the timing just right, you'll still grind a little.

Just a suggestion. I've got (I believe) a bad throwout bearing on my truck, and you'd know with that because I believe you also have noise when the clutch is engaged and the car is out of gear.

And chances are, if you don't know what a clutch plate is, it's a good idea to get a friend to help you do this. [help] Just a thought so that you have someone to consult, etc.

[edit]In short, make sure your clutch linkage is correct. When you refilled/replaced the master cylinder, it's possible something got fouled up doing that.

[edit2]And what kind of manual? The full on service manual? If so, that should have troubleshooting tips to make sure you're not performing a repair that you don't need to be performing.

[ScosyGissiok]

snip!
[edit]In short, make sure your clutch linkage is correct. When you refilled/replaced the master cylinder, it's possible something got fouled up doing that.

[edit2]And what kind of manual? The full on service manual? If so, that should have troubleshooting tips to make sure you're not performing a repair that you don't need to be performing.

I know what a clutch plate is now I did a little research. The manual is the only one I could get for the car. I asked for a workshop manual or whatever it's called and they just gave me a normal car manual but it has everything for my car. Well not necessarily for my car it's mainly for an older model but the manual is good for lancers between 1990 to 1994 or something.

The clutch is truly screwed, even with the clutch fully down now as soon as I shift to any gear the car starts to shake like it's trying to pull on a broken rod or something and will continue to shake until I increase acceleration where it will begin to ease off. The clutch now feels really spongy and no longer stiff and hard like it used to be (Still is stiff and hard but only when engine is turned off)

I'm not really driving the car either it's just my pop had to mow the lawn and I had to move my car of the lawn and didn't feel like pushing it so just drove it across the road.

I will be getting people to help that know a lot more then I do about cars though I will be having the car manual in front of me the whole time just so I can understand what they are saying and correct them if needed and provide any help where possible.

[ScosyGissiok]

Well I ended up buying a clutch kit ($250[thumbdown]) and took the gearbox off (was a huge pain in the *ss) and located the problem. The thrust race bearing was stripped pretty badly. Half the bearings were missing and it was bent and grazed. The spinny ring thing on it had also broken off.

Everything else was in perfect condition (almost) and I could have re-used the old pressure plate etc etc but used the news ones instead. Will hopefully have it up and running by tomorrow. Lost 3 bolts to the engine mount so until I find them or buy news ones I'm a little stuck.

I have everything else connected up though, only the radiator and air filters are left. But anyways, I was wandering what could have caused the thrust race bearing to go? just so I can hopefully avoid another incident in the future.

[feqlmwtuqx]

Normal wear and tear comes to mind. Your vehicle is from '93. . .stuff's gonna die occasionally due to old age.

Where exactly was this bearing located?

[ScosyGissiok]

Where exactly was this bearing located?

Was connected to the hydrolic clutch sitting on top of the drive shaft or something inside the gearbox. Was an *ss to take off but that could be due to the damage done to it. Putting the new one on was fairly easy, it just popped in.

I figured wear and tear would be recognizable over a period of time. Like you can start to feel it go and over a longer period of time it get's worse. But this was almost instant. I still have the old thrust race bearing and when you turn it around it's still a little rough even though I got most of the metal shards out of it. Doesn't spin very smoothly like the new one I installed.

Well cheers for the help, now to put everything back together and give it a test drive. Hope all goes well

[feqlmwtuqx]

Was connected to the hydrolic clutch sitting on top of the drive shaft or something inside the gearbox. Was an *ss to take off but that could be due to the damage done to it. Putting the new one on was fairly easy, it just popped in.

I figured wear and tear would be recognizable over a period of time. Like you can start to feel it go and over a longer period of time it get's worse. But this was almost instant. I still have the old thrust race bearing and when you turn it around it's still a little rough even though I got most of the metal shards out of it. Doesn't spin very smoothly like the new one I installed.

Well cheers for the help, now to put everything back together and give it a test drive. Hope all goes well

You gotta keep in mind a bearing sitting on a drive shaft is going to have a lot of force put on it.

And some wear and tear is easy to spot over time. Other wear and tear you won't feel at all; you can either only see it, or it will happen suddenly. In the cases of transmissions, most of the wear and tear issues I've heard of happen immediately, generally.

Just keep in mind, there's a lot of forces acting on a lot of parts of the tranny; any weakness or slight misalignment in that area, from experience with gear head friends, comes to light very quickly and suddenly.