[AntonioMQ]

Well, with all this talk about who is better, who is going to win, who will die, who has more support, more movies, more upcoming releases, ect.....

It has me wondering...........


Why can there be only 1?


Times are changing, anyone that has had a computer or console, or basicly anything electronic has had to deal with situation(s) that stipulate you can only use this, but not that. Your system can run this but not that, your console has this game but not that, ect... Basicly, everything these days has limitations of what it can do/use or provide depending on what type of technology you have bought in to, and I see no reason why it will not branch off in to the dvd medium.

Sony and MS have tons of disposable money to use in promoting there new medium and personally feel neithor is going to settle for defeat. And when the smoke clears, I feel dvd medium, like most everything else will be devided between what you have, what you need and what you can use. HD-DVD and/or Blue Ray.

So, despite the history traditionally gravitating to a single accepted movie medium, what conclusion of absolution can be said to make me believe that one MUST die??

[vintsqyuid]

Up until the WB thing, it looked like both formats were going to live, but why would you want two formats? The two dvd rewritable formats DVD-R and DVD+R were enough of a pain in the ass. I wouldn't want to have to wait until dual format players are at a cheap price to pick up my favorite movie. And studios don't want to invest having thier movies on more mediums then needed I'm sure.

[AntonioMQ]

Up until the WB thing, it looked like both formats were going to live, but why would you want two formats? The two dvd rewritable formats DVD-R and DVD+R were enough of a pain in the ass. I wouldn't want to have to wait until dual format players are at a cheap price to pick up my favorite movie. And studios don't want to invest having thier movies on more mediums then needed I'm sure.

Well, I would rather have only 1, but thats not the issue. I believe the market can keep afloat 2 variations at the present time. And the studios will want to make the most money, weither it comes from MS or sony. Both are offering serious sign on bonuses I'm sure, so gambling on the longevity of the dvd sales itsself becomes second nature to the massive ammounts of cash MS and sony are offering upfront...


I think the only safe bet at the moment is that a dual format HD-DVD / Blue Ray player is going to become common place..

[educationonlines]

I think the only safe bet at the moment is that a dual format HD-DVD / Blue Ray player is going to become common place..

Which if it were to happen would be a double whammy because it would be a continuation of this 2 format status quo and mean that both parties were wrong. Those early adopters who went with HD-DVD and those who went with Blu-Ray would both find themselves having to buy a new player!

This is why until this is finally resolved the best way to hedge your bets is to buy a PS3 and rent discs from Netflix. Over 80% of people who buy a PS3 don't buy it for Blu-Ray movies so you still have a second hand market for your purchase even if Blu-Ray fails to win out and you don't have any redundant discs to sell.

[AntonioMQ]

Which if it were to happen would be a double whammy because it would be a continuation of this 2 format status quo and mean that both parties were wrong. Those early adopters who went with HD-DVD and those who went with Blu-Ray would both find themselves having to buy a new player!

This is why until this is finally resolved the best way to hedge your bets is to buy a PS3 and rent discs from Netflix. Over 80% of people who buy a PS3 don't buy it for Blu-Ray movies so you still have a second hand market for your purchase even if Blu-Ray fails to win out and you don't have any redundant discs to sell.

Allthough what you are saying makes sence from a certin perspective, I still see no real reason the market cant keep aflaot both formats. It's not really about what the people want but rather what will make the companie(s) money..

[boiffrona]

Allthough what you are saying makes sence from a certin perspective, I still see no real reason the market cant keep aflaot both formats. It's not really about what the people want but rather what will make the companie(s) money..

Some problems:
- Studio exclusivity means some movies will be available on one format and not the other
- Keeping double the inventory of discs is a problem for retailers

There are tons of issues as well. Many of them complicated by the goals of large companies. If you really want to keep up with this HD format war, I highly suggest www.thedigitalbits.com

The Digital Bits has been covering the development of digital video discs since 1997, and they've generally been spot on with their insights. The writers there truly have good information about the industry, and are pretty honest, unlike many many forums where editorials and forumgoers bitch and act stupider than cows on PMS.

[car.insur]

This is why until this is finally resolved the best way to hedge your bets is to buy a PS3 and rent discs from Netflix. Over 80% of people who buy a PS3 don't buy it for Blu-Ray movies so you still have a second hand market for your purchase even if Blu-Ray fails to win out and you don't have any redundant discs to sell.

Absolutely, and this is the exact reason I signed up for a Netflix account the second I bought a PS3. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but after I watch a movie a couple of times, I really have no desire to watch them again unless they're a favorite of mine. I know people enjoy collecting movies to have a nice library, but honestly considering the format wars were still in their infancy just a few months ago, it seems a bit ludicrous to build a big library on an unproven format.

[f6HLLFcw]

Why can there be only 1?

You've obviously never seen Highlander.

[wallyfindme]

I'll get an IDE combo drive (so long as they work ok) prices of HD DVD films should plummet and there is going to be bargains to be had, not to mention the HD DVD movies I already own.

[AntonioMQ]

You've obviously never seen Highlander.

Hehe, I indeed have and thought the same thing!

[educationonlines]

Absolutely, and this is the exact reason I signed up for a Netflix account the second I bought a PS3. Perhaps I'm in the minority, but after I watch a movie a couple of times, I really have no desire to watch them again unless they're a favorite of mine. I know people enjoy collecting movies to have a nice library, but honestly considering the format wars were still in their infancy just a few months ago, it seems a bit ludicrous to build a big library on an unproven format.

I may be showing my age but I watched and collected most of the films I loved on VHS, I never really got around to replacing many of them on DVD (apart from Star Wars 4-6). My DVD collection is long gone but I still feel no need to re-buy any of those films although I may pick up the Sergio Leone Box set if it ever comes to pass. I guess another factor is I completed my VHS collection by purchase during the 3 for £15 deals so I'm not the kind of guy to go stocking up on $35-40 titles.

[forexsoft]

You've obviously never seen Highlander.

Dammit dude you beat me to it!

[xochgtlm]

Retailers, consumers, and studios don't want 2 formats. It's as simple as that.


Retailers dont' want to take up valuable shelf space to stock two copies of nearly every movie(one for each format).

Studios don't want to have to manufacturer multiple copies, versions, and boxes of every single movie they make,

and

Consumers don't want to have to deal with the confusion of buying a blu-ray or hd dvd compatible player. They just want to buy the box and have it play all the HD movies out there. Yes, combo players exist, but by the time they are in the normal consumers' price range, it'd be too late for EITHER format to catch on.

1 format is the obvious way to go.

[Âåðåùàãèí]

I dont know a single person who has brought a HD/BR player of some sort and werent dazed and confused by all this film seperation. Its not good for the film industry to have 2. Consumers will eventually be put off by missing out on blockbuster hits on 1 system when they spent their £300 on another system. Things such as this will damage the film industry because people will only buy half the normal amount of films, and result in pirate copys or illegal downloads streamed on their PS3 or media player to watch the other half.

If the films where released on BOTH formats it would matter so much, But then thats stupid anyway,.

[CymnMaync]

This seems to be a relief. But there are some points to consider as a friend of mine pointed out. It's not all black and white:

- Having two formats has brought competition and brought prices down very fast, so it's been good for us.
- Bluray is way more expensive and difficult to manufacture. There's not that many production lines for it. Sony owns most of them and they are mostly busy making PS3 games. Existing DVD production lines can make HD-DVDs easily, but they cannot be upgraded to make Blurays. The fact that Sony holds most of the production facilities as well as a number of Hollywood studios doesn't sound too promising.

Sony is basically losing huge amounts of money since they've been producing Blurays for studios for less than the actual cost. Add the money they've put into development and production facilities, as well as paying studios for being exclusive. So if HD-DVD loses, Bluray rises in demand but production facilities cannot cope with that. Then the money lost previously will be reaped from customers, one way or another. It's just business.

[educationonlines]

This seems to be a relief. But there are some points to consider as a friend of mine pointed out. It's not all black and white:

Sony is basically losing huge amounts of money since they've been producing Blurays for studios for less than the actual cost. Add the money they've put into development and production facilities, as well as paying studios for being exclusive. So if HD-DVD loses, Bluray rises in demand but production facilities cannot cope with that. Then the money lost previously will be reaped from customers, one way or another. It's just business.

Really? I don't suppose you actually have any real facts to back up what you've just asserted do you? I mean I'd like to see what figures you are using to draw this conclusion. Do you realize production costs are only a couple of dollars per BluRay disc? Also you make it sound as if it's impossible to setup new production facilities, while I agree the cost of doing so puts such a task out of our reach it's not really that expensive how do you think DVD ever took off? They couldn't produce DVDs on a VHS production line you know?

[CymnMaync]

Even if the per disc cost is similar it's a bit different investment (even hundreds of millions?) to setup new production facilities, than to just use existing gazillion DVD facilities. Previously some Warner Blu-ray titles missed release dates. And this was just because there was not enough production capacity.

As long as Sony holds most of the production facilities, it's not likely that disc prices are going down anytime soon if HD-DVD does fade out.

[educationonlines]

Even if the per disc cost is similar it's a bit different investment (even hundreds of millions?)

Not even close you can count the cost in millions on one hand. $2-3 million to setup a Blu Ray replication line. and the cost difference per disc is about 10-20c more per disc for Blu Ray. I may have misunderstood what your original post was about though. I thought you were suggesting reasons why Blu Ray was unlikely to win out over HD-DVD rather than talking about long term retail prices.

I'm really not sure about the fact that Sony has most of the replication lines though. Is that true?

[Rqvtwlfk]

Retailers, consumers, and studios don't want 2 formats. It's as simple as that.


Retailers dont' want to take up valuable shelf space to stock two copies of nearly every movie(one for each format).

Studios don't want to have to manufacturer multiple copies, versions, and boxes of every single movie they make,

and

Consumers don't want to have to deal with the confusion of buying a blu-ray or hd dvd compatible player. They just want to buy the box and have it play all the HD movies out there. Yes, combo players exist, but by the time they are in the normal consumers' price range, it'd be too late for EITHER format to catch on.

1 format is the obvious way to go.

You beat me to it. Personally I dont want two formats and many people think the same way. Whether a market with two formats would be able to make enough money for each format is left to be seen but one format is easier for everyone. Movie makers, DVD makers, hardware manufacturers and last but not least us, the consumer. Two formats on a permanent basis would suck big time.

[CymnMaync]

I'm into HD as well, so of course I'm happy if I only need one player and can get all movies on the same format. There's no denying that.

My point was just that if Blu-ray now wins, it's not all dance and joy after that.

Where did you get the investments? My information might be old but I'd assume it's at least tens of millions?

I'm really not sure about the fact that Sony has most of the replication lines though. Is that true? That's what I've understood. It's their format after all, and PS3 is their flagship on that. So it's a bit scary that the company who owns the format also owns studios. Can potentially twist competition between studios etc. Where as Toshiba with HD-DVD would have been neutral in that sense?