[tiereenny]

I read the old thread on this, but its not answered my questions. Don't read below if you've not seen the film yet:

- Bordens twin was created by the tesla machine right, and not just natural twin? If so, then when? - was it done before he tied the knot that killed Angier's wife towards the beginning of the movie? (which would explain why he did not know which not was tied, as it was the OTHER Borden that tied it). I think it must have been, as his twin did not initially have the missing fingers, so it was certainly done before the bullet-catching accident.

- Angier performed the trick not by using one created twin repeatedly, but by killing his created twin each time (hence the rows of tanks at the end of the movie). I think this is the case, as he is shocked when Cain's character says he lied about the sailors description of drowing, it was not like going home, but was infact agony. It would also explain why Angier did not want Cain's character to go backstage, as he did not want him to see the dead "doubles" each night.

Are my two points correct, or am I missing something here? For some reason I have this niggling feeling I have missed some part.

[Emapymosy]

Its been a while since I have seen the movie, so I might have characters mixed up. But I thought that Borden had a natural twin thats how he could do it from the beginning, his twin had to chop a finger off so that he looked the same.

And Angier, was using the tesla machine to create a twin which he would kill after each performance. Using the water tanks.

[tiereenny]

Thats the bit I was having trouble deciding - if Borden's twin was natural, or the result of the machine at an earlier point.

[Misespimb]

Yep, natural twin I believe. That would make sense, since they were doing the Transported Man for a while and I don't remember bodies piling up from their act.

[tiereenny]

Yep, natural twin I believe. That would make sense, since they were doing the Transported Man for a while and I don't remember bodies piling up from their act.

But he could have made one twin from his previous dealings with Tesla, and then had that twin work with him, rather than making and killing a new twin each time like Angier did.

This is the bit I cannot work out.

[Misespimb]

But he could have made one twin from his previous dealings with Tesla, and then had that twin work with him, rather than making and killing a new twin each time like Angier did.

This is the bit I cannot work out.

Actually now that I think of it, it WAS his natural twin. Remember the guy who stopped Angier from killing Borden and deflected the gun downward? That was the guy's twin (forget what "his" name was in the movie). That was well before Transported Man. Also, didn't Angier complain to Tesla that he never really did any work with Borden?

[Dpkefsuf]

Borden had natural twin

[nicegirlflor]

No he wasn't a clone. When Angier had asked at the funeral which knot he tied.. at the very beginning of the film when Angiers wife died... He said he didn't know. Thats because his twin tied the knot at the beginning, unaware that they had decided not to.

This was before he branched out to do his own magic show, therefor he had no reason to clone himself.

[weO1bVp1]

i think it's less important whether there was a twin or a clone, and more important to know the REASONS for each man doing the trick their way.

Borden was in love with the magic and the practise.
he used the audience as a gauge to his perfection skills. he wanted perfection. witness his admiration at the old Chinese magician and the goldfish bowl trick.

Angier was in love with the FAME.
he used the audience to gauge how happy he was. he needed people to know he was great so he could believe he was unique and therefore happy. his performance insecurities are throughout the film.

Borden was happy to revel in the knowledge that he was as good as he knew he was.
Angier NEEDED other people to know he was good so he could believe it.
insecurity problems.

that's why Angier was happy to choose to kill over and over for the fame, while Borden just needed one good helper to perfect the most efficient way for the trick.
Borden had a more harmonious method that made him happy, Angier had to destroy much to satisfy himself.