[Vezazvqw]

Well that was an informative video. I am at a stage in my game that I can hit the ball straight and long when I line up off the tee wide open. Lack of lessons and learning to take a bad driver swing and make it good 20 years ago have resulted in, probably, a long dead pull which goes straight down the middle. My fairway 3 is similar but not quite as open. For these clubs, I am sure that in my early attempts to keep only about 20 of my weight on the front side, that I picked up this method and made it work through the years. Interestingly enough,,,,and probably because my weight is more centered on my other clubs and even more left foot weighted on the 9-Sand, I would say my stance is square and true to target line. So, why change I ask myself. For one, my shot shaping ability on the driver-3W is non existent since I don't have the confidence to stray to far from proven methods, albeit wrong methods, that have worked for me. I am working out the new mechanics on the range.

[PriniMai]

Practice sure. But what are you going to practice if you dont quite understand how the club is supposed to move to initiate a certain ballflight?

What about the pros that don't really understand the true ball flight laws? How do they practice working the ball if they don't really understand it?

Nick Faldo for example, and even Luke Donald recently still go by the old ball flight laws. They don't really understand the new laws but can pull off the shots better than you or I ever could (more consistently).

[PriniMai]

What exactly are the old ball flight laws? Also I highly doubt Donald doesn't understand why a ball flies a certain way.

Old ball flight laws are not the shot shapes, but how people think you create them. The way people think that you should create a push-draw is to close your stance and aim your clubface at the target. This way, the ball will start where your stance is (to the right) and end up where your clubface is pointing (draw back to the left).

There are 9 ball flight and to be honest the touring pros practice 3 of them. The other 6 usually mean you are playing either from the rough or water.
The three main ball flights are draw, straight and fade.
Edit: to my knowledge they have not changed, I could be wrong, but I have not heard anything different.

You are right about there being 9, but when saying draw or fade, it would be either push/pull/straight fade/draw.


The "new" ball flight laws, or, correct ball flight laws, state that shot shapes are determined primarily (85%) by clubface at impact and slightly (15%) by swing path.

To create a push-draw, the clubface has to be slightly closed to the swing path at impact with an inside-out swing.

To create a pull-fade, you would need a outside-in swing with a slightly open clubface.

The only 3 paths the new and old laws agree with, would be push, fade, and straight ball.


This is one of my more favorite links that explain this. Also why pros say to do one thing, and do something else.
http://thesandtrap.com/b/playing_tips/ball_flight_laws

[usatramadolusa]

If you learn the ball flight laws and what causes what to happen, you can learn to make any shot happen.

You may be able to "learn" what needs to happen to create any shot. Execution is much, much harder.

[Timoxari]

Could I make it happen like that? Yes. I was trying to get a low smooth flight with a controlled draw. Didn't work.

Uhhhh...it was a jokey joke.


Siri does my posting for me using Tapatalk.

[Usendyduexy]

Here is someone I work very closely with and respect deeply. He is a master pro, and absolutely is the smartest person I have ever met in terms of golf knowledge.

[Arkadiyas]

You guys are both correct. Knowledge and reps are the keys to playing in particular golf shot well.
I can teach you every shot in the book but I can't execute them each time I try because I don't practice like used to.

[Vezazvqw]

When you said the words 'low punch draw' I immediately went outside to make it happen. Didn't work too well.

That just cracked me up!

[Timoxari]

Watch the Jhonattan Vegas Mentor Project commercial and listen CLOSELY. That's what differentiates pros from schmoes.


Siri does my posting for me using Tapatalk.

[bestworkothlo]

If I want to hit that shot I can. All I have to do is grab a 4i and swing out of my shoes. Wait... That's a smother hook. Never mind!


Siri does my posting for me using Tapatalk.

Could I make it happen like that? Yes. I was trying to get a low smooth flight with a controlled draw. Didn't work.

[Usendyduexy]

Practice sure. But what are you going to practice if you dont quite understand how the club is supposed to move to initiate a certain ballflight?

I believe you're being naive. Executing the shot shape you want in golf requires practice and repetition. You can't accuse someone of not truly understanding something just because they are unable to do it.

[brulpcoersero]

What about the pros that don't really understand the true ball flight laws? How do they practice working the ball if they don't really understand it?

Nick Faldo for example, and even Luke Donald recently still go by the old ball flight laws. They don't really understand the new laws but can pull off the shots better than you or I ever could (more consistently).

What exactly are the old ball flight laws? Also I highly doubt Donald doesn't understand why a ball flies a certain way.

[Arkadiyas]

There are 9 ball flight and to be honest the touring pros practice 3 of them. The other 6 usually mean you are playing either from the rough or water.
The three main ball flights are draw, straight and fade.
Edit: to my knowledge they have not changed, I could be wrong, but I have not heard anything different.

[fount_pirat]

Thank you very much for posting that Thain. What I am trying to figure out is how to hit a cut/fade without the push and this video seriously helped.

[Timoxari]

When you said the words 'low punch draw' I immediately went outside to make it happen. Didn't work too well.

If I want to hit that shot I can. All I have to do is grab a 4i and swing out of my shoes. Wait... That's a smother hook. Never mind!


Siri does my posting for me using Tapatalk.

[ovenco]

Agreed

You may be able to "learn" what needs to happen to create any shot. Execution is much, much harder.

[Usendyduexy]

I disagree. Execution is only hard when you truly dont understand what you are doing.

You may be able to "learn" what needs to happen to create any shot. Execution is much, much harder.

[EntectCelpelm]

Seconded. Good video Thain. I'll be coming back to this one later. I'm not quite to the point where I'm ready to start working the ball yet, but I've had a need twice in my last two rounds. I got lucky on both. This is something that I'm looking to add to my practice routine later this year.

[Usendyduexy]

Wanted to bump this one up for the afternoon crowd, tons of good info...

[PriniMai]

Didn't watch the whole video Thain, but that's what my link says, albeit in a easier to understand fashion. Your pro knows what he's talking about.

So that isn't what you should do? Are you saying that you should aim straight and swing inside out and close the clubface? That article is kind of confusing.

I'm no expert by any means, but I think the majority of pros (besides maybe Bubba) will use the "old laws" (as u say) and swing on plane and only change their set up angles/club face to produce more consistent shots.

This is not what you should do if you knew how to control your face angle and knew your swing path at impact.

The ball starts exactly where your clubface is pointed at impact. (Old laws say it'll start wherever your body is aligned). What determines side spin is the difference in the angle of your clubface at impact, and your swing path.

The pros think they use the old laws, but their body's are so good at making adjustments, that they shape the ball using only the "new" (real) ball flight laws. The problem is when they try to tell people how to shape the ball, they don't explain it the correct way...