[ChicasCams]

And the more I play the more I despise long par 4's that play entirely uphill. For myself a 400 yd hole such as that may as well be a par 5 because there is no way in hell I will ever get there in 2 unless I play the ladies tee box & even then I may not.

We have one like that - uphill and then a dogleg when it evens out. It's a par 5 for the men, but a par 4 for the women. One of my friends has 7 HI and she rarely pars it. It's crazy - should be a par 5 for the women too.