[MattJargin]

Why do we need a gatekeeper for God?
You hear the stories about Jaya & Vijaya the two Dwarapalakas of Visnu, and also in all south Indian Temples.

[OQmYckYz]

Dear Prasad,

I give here the explanation as gathered from learned elders. I have presumed that you are talking about the anthropomorphous Dwarapalakas (with human features-in simple English). The dwarapalakas represent a stage in the spiritual progress of an Atma. There are saamipyam, saarupyam and saayujyam which are considered to be the three important milestones in the atma's progress. Saamipyam occurs when you reach Vaikuntha finally and you are near the God. Saarupyam is getting a look which is similar to that of the paramatma. This occurs quite early in the journey depending on how intense is your bhakthi. The more you think about Paramatma and the more you yearn for reaching him you get the features and look of the paramatma himself. That is why you find the Dwarapalakas in the Temples looking like the presiding deity itself with conch and disk and four hands, kireetam, the satvik look etc., The Dwarapalaka has virtually become the God himself because of his constant bhakthi without break (like the flow of oil-thaila dhara). As a dwarapalaka, it is his duty also to constantly think about his master and nothing else. So dwarapalakas are an example of the soul which has crossed the Saarupya milestone.The last stage is the Sayujyam when you realise the final truth that you are what you are because of God in you. This is the final summum bonum of the Atma's journey. Next time when you go to the temple with your son/daughter and when he/she asks you the question tell him/her that the dwarapalaka is doing the duty assigned to him well and that is why he looks as rich and powerful as his master inside. In our dharma everything has a meaning. As dwarapalakas tell you this truth they are needed to stand there in the temples.

Cheers.

[Tnzxovoz]

Dear Prasad,

I give here the explanation as gathered from learned elders. I have presumed that you are talking about the anthropomorphous Dwarapalakas (with human features-in simple English). The dwarapalakas represent a stage in the spiritual progress of an Atma. There are saamipyam, saarupyam and saayujyam which are considered to be the three important milestones in the atma's progress. Saamipyam occurs when you reach Vaikuntha finally and you are near the God. Saarupyam is getting a look which is similar to that of the paramatma. This occurs quite early in the journey depending on how intense is your bhakthi. The more you think about Paramatma and the more you yearn for reaching him you get the features and look of the paramatma himself. That is why you find the Dwarapalakas in the Temples looking like the presiding deity itself with conch and disk and four hands, kireetam, the satvik look etc., The Dwarapalaka has virtually become the God himself because of his constant bhakthi without break (like the flow of oil-thaila dhara). As a dwarapalaka, it is his duty also to constantly think about his master and nothing else. So dwarapalakas are an example of the soul which has crossed the Saarupya milestone.The last stage is the Sayujyam when you realise the final truth that you are what you are because of God in you. This is the final summum bonum of the Atma's journey. Next time when you go to the temple with your son/daughter and when he/she asks you the question tell him/her that the dwarapalaka is doing the duty assigned to him well and that is why he looks as rich and powerful as his master inside. In our dharma everything has a meaning. As dwarapalakas tell you this truth they are needed to stand there in the temples.

Cheers.

Thank you, that explains the Vishnu temple dwarapalakas. What about the dwarapalakas like in the picture? I have seen it in Shiva, Murugan, Ganesh, and even in Devi temples. These Dwarapalakas look more like bouncers, rather than the Deity inside.

[textarchive]

Dear Prasad,

What about the dwarapalakas like in the picture? I have seen it in Shiva, Murugan, Ganesh, and even in Devi temples. These Dwarapalakas look more like bouncers, rather than the Deity inside. I do not know. You will have to ask some one well versed in Advaitam, Saaktham, Kaoumaram, Saivam or Ganapathyam.

[Quiniacab]

Sri Prasad,

Your comment about them looking more like bouncers made me laugh out loud.
Does the wikipedia link help at all?

Village deities of Tamil Nadu - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[ZIDouglas]

Thanks Amala for the link.
Yes it does help, in a way.
May be I was trying to understand why God would need a gatekeeper. But then again why would a God need a temple?
So it should be man needs God to be in temple, and then you do need bouncers to keep God inside. LOL




Aravan (the son of Arjuna and the serpent princess Ulupi) are found in Tamil Nadu.

But the temple official in Singapore told us that it was the son of "krishna and draupadi", that scared the us all, particularly my daughter who was 11 years old, and loves Krishna stories.

[vqIo7X2U]

.... Saamipyam occurs when you reach Vaikuntha finally and you are near the God.

Raju, I have no comment on dwarapalakas, but your explanation of saamipyam, saaroopyam, and saayujyam, particularly when and where it occurs, seems kind of novel to me, i.e. if you think you are presenting orthodox SV view. I may be wrong though, so may I request you to provide some textual reference for the view you have presented?

Cheers!

[Tinasblue]

I too LOL'd at the "Bouncers" comment :-D If you answer doesn't come in the week I will ask a Sivachariar for you at puja on Friday.

Have an aswesome and blessed day!

Thank you, that explains the Vishnu temple dwarapalakas. What about the dwarapalakas like in the picture? I have seen it in Shiva, Murugan, Ganesh, and even in Devi temples. These Dwarapalakas look more like bouncers, rather than the Deity inside.

[Sheefeadalfuh]

Nara's post #7:

Raju, I have no comment on dwarapalakas, but your explanation of saamipyam, saaroopyam, and saayujyam, particularly when and where it occurs, seems kind of novel to me, i.e. if you think you are presenting orthodox SV view. I may be wrong though, so may I request you to provide some textual reference for the view you have presented? I have spent time in kalakshebam with many Acharyas in my endless search for knowledge and truth. In one such Kalakshepam I picked up this info. I retain whatever is explained with logic and try to forget the rest. I have no reference source to offer you in this matter as it is just what the acharya said from his knowledge. It appears to be acceptable to me. I do not know what you think. Thank you. I am keen to know if there is any flaw that is visible to you. If so please let me know so that I can do some research.

Cheers.

[Sawyer]

.... I do not know what you think. .

Raju, here is what I have heard and understood. SVs talk about four states, Salokyam, Sameepyam, Saroopyam and Sayujyam. I am sure you are familiar with what they mean, but for others who may not be aware, these four terms mean, (i) same loka, (ii) proximity, (iii) similarity in form, and (iv) inseparable union.

Some people claim all four states individually mean Sri Vaikuntam which Swami Sri Desikan rejects. Salokyam means one is residing in one of the Vishnu Lokas like Vishnu Lokam, golokam, or Thirupparkadal, not necessarily Sri Vaikuntam. To be sameepyam one has to be in Salokyam and in addition be in close proximity to Sriman Narayana. This can happen in any of the Vishnu lokas, not necessarily in Sri Vaikuntam. To be saroopyam, one has to be sameepyam and have similar -- not same -- form. But Sayujyam, the inseparable union can occur only in Sri Vaikuntam. This is why the unknown author of Jitante Sthotram asks for Sayujyam while rejecting Salokyam, Saroopyam in Shloka 2.36.
मोक्षं सालोक्य-सारूप्यं प्रार्थये न कदाचन ।
इ्च्छमहम महाबाहो साय्ज्यं तव सुव्रत ॥

moksham sAlokyam-sArUpyam prArthayE na kadAcana |
ichChAmyaham mahAbAho sAyujyam tava suvrata ||

Free translation:
I pray not for Salokyam or Sarupyam kind of moksham, but the moksham of Sayujyam is what I desire.

Here, Swami Sri Desikan states the term moksham used for Salokyam, Sameepyam, and Saroopyam is more a upachara (embelishment) to show these states are great too and must not be taken literally. True moksham is to be found only in Sayujyam.

Badda jeevas and prapannas can't enjoy any of these four states as they are in in bhU lokam.

This is my understanding. I may have read you wrong, but I thought you were saying some of these states can be enjoyed even in Bhu Loka which is contrary to my understanding of what these terms mean to SVs. This is why I asked whether your understanding is based on any text.

Cheers!
Every opinion based on scientific criticism I welcome. As to prejudices .. to which I have never made concessions ... “Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti.” -- Karl Marx

[CorpoRasion]

Raju, here is what I have heard and understood. SVs talk about four states, Salokyam, Sameepyam, Saroopyam and Sayujyam. I am sure you are familiar with what they mean, but for others who may not be aware, these four terms mean, (i) same loka, (ii) proximity, (iii) similarity in form, and (iv) inseparable union.

Some people claim all four states individually mean Sri Vaikuntam which Swami Sri Desikan rejects. Salokyam means one is residing in one of the Vishnu Lokas like Vishnu Lokam, golokam, or Thirupparkadal, not necessarily Sri Vaikuntam. To be sameepyam one has to be in Salokyam and in addition be in close proximity to Sriman Narayana. This can happen in any of the Vishnu lokas, not necessarily in Sri Vaikuntam. To be saroopyam, one has to be sameepyam and have similar -- not same -- form. But Sayujyam, the inseparable union can occur only in Sri Vaikuntam. This is why the unknown author of Jitante Sthotram asks for Sayujyam while rejecting Salokyam, Saroopyam in Shloka 2.36.
मोक्षं सालोक्य-सारूप्यं प्रार्थये न कदाचन ।
इ्च्छमहम महाबाहो साय्ज्यं तव सुव्रत ॥

moksham sAlokyam-sArUpyam prArthayE na kadAcana |
ichChAmyaham mahAbAho sAyujyam tava suvrata ||

Free translation:
I pray not for Salokyam or Sarupyam kind of moksham, but the moksham of Sayujyam is what I desire.

Here, Swami Sri Desikan states the term moksham used for Salokyam, Sameepyam, and Saroopyam is more a upachara (embelishment) to show these states are great too and must not be taken literally. True moksham is to be found only in Sayujyam.

Badda jeevas and prapannas can't enjoy any of these four states as they are in in bhU lokam.

This is my understanding. I may have read you wrong, but I thought you were saying some of these states can be enjoyed even in Bhu Loka which is contrary to my understanding of what these terms mean to SVs. This is why I asked whether your understanding is based on any text.

Cheers!
Every opinion based on scientific criticism I welcome. As to prejudices .. to which I have never made concessions ... “Segui il tuo corso, e lascia dir le genti.” -- Karl Marx

dear nara !
thanks for the giving for information on the four s
regards,
guruvayurappan

[lisualsethelp]

Dear Mr. Nara,
Your post #10 for reference:

Thank you for the elaborate post. I tried to be very brief as I was not sure about the need for details. Your quote of Jitante Stotra was very useful. Thank you.

Cheers.

[kjanyeaz1]

Dwarapalakas are Sentries at the Temple premises appointed at the instance of
presiding God or Deity of the Temple. There is a story in this connection. Once the
Sage Narada went to see Lord Krishna in Dwaraka. Since Lord Krishna was in
meditation, the Sentries did not allow Sage Narada inside. Sage Narada started
questioning the Sentries and the reason for that and also told the Sentries that
no one can stop him to see Lord Krishna. Sentries explaining the whole instance,
politely informed the Sage Narada that he would not like to receive displeasure from
Lord Krishna. Sage Narada immediately told the Sentries that there is no one above
HIM and we all meditate on HIM. I do not understand the reason. After sometime,
the Sentries on getting clearance from Lord Krishna opened the doors. Lord Krishna
on seeing Sage Narada, asked for pardon for holding him outside by the Sentries.
When Sage Narada asked him about the meditation aspects, Lord Krishna explained
to Sage Narada, that HE is meditating for the welfare of HIS Bhaktas. Sage Narada
was convinced and from then onwards, the practice of installation of Dwara Palakas
in the Temple become a mandatory not to disturb the presiding Deity. Owing to
the above incident, Sage Narada called Lord Krishna Bhakta Vatsala and felt bad
for getting annoyed on the Dwara Palakas (Sentries).

Balasubramanian
Ambattur