[ffflyer]

Great msg

[Clilmence]

Mr. Vijisesh,
It indeed is a good start. I wish all the Tamil Brahmins take interest in
our vedanta , study it with devotion, understand the meaning and start
practising what is learnt. We can then understand many things which
at present seem to lie beyond our comprehension. We will then be able
to see the World in true perspective. As our Tamil saint-poet Tiruvalluvar
said, Karka kasadara karpavai, karrapin nirka atharku thaga.

[tq4F7YKs]

Dear Sri N.R. Ranganathan Ji,

I have read with interest your response to Sri Hariharan. Since this topic of discussion has been quite heated in the past, I want to make sure that you will not understand my following questions to be in any way confrontational:

1. Please tell me, if any one other than a Jathi Brahmin, who undergoes the rigorous training to be an Archaka and can maintain the 'purity' level required per Agama Shastra can indeed become an Archaka?

2. Please tell me whether a person who is a butcher, or a person who is a cleaner of latrines, who perform their duties as acts towards Him, are unclean (in the view of our Shastras)?

3. Please tell me the differences, if any, between a Jathi Brahmana, Karma Brahmana and a Guna Brahmana. If these different kinds exist, can you tell me whether all the three types are by birth right (we know that it is so for the Jathi Brahmana)?

I have been mulling about these questions by myself. I think that you seem to be very well educated about our religion. I would really appreciate it if you can illuminate on the above three questions.

Pranams,
KRS

Mr. Hariharan.
I am not with you as far as allowing others to perform the functions of
archakas in the Temple. As you are aware, even the brahmin-devotees
are not allowed to enter the sanctum-santorum ( garbhagraham ) of the
Temples in order to preserve the sanctity ( sannithyam ) of the Deity.
The archakas must be pure in body and mind. You perhaps know that
they must get up at 4 in the morning, do poojas in their houses ( pancha-yudana or SriVidya or something else as is their custom ) chanting
Rudram, chamakam , sukthas and other mantras and then only enter the
Temple precinct. We can not disturb the Vedagama rules to suit the
political ends.

In regard to archana in Tamil, this is being done in some Temples.

Look at the crowd at the Temples now - in Palani, Tiruvannamalai, Madurai,
Trichy, Chidambaram, Tirupathi and Sabarimalai. Lakhs of people
circumambulate Tiruvannamalai Mountain every Full Moon day. They
belong to different castes. All these theistic devotees are not demanding
that archanas must be performed in Tamil; neither are they demanding
that non-brahmins must be allowed to do archanas. They have full faith
in us.

It is the politicians mean gibberish to show that they have brought out
some social reforms !!!

[jPNy2BP5]

Good questions, Sri KRS! I, too, would like to be enlightened. By the way, what is the meaning of 'Jathi Brahmin' in English?

[9uWzBx4l]

My question is:

Does Sri KRS believe that the four varnas created by Sri Krishna should be abolished in which case I do have to know as to what would be the difference between Hinduism and other religions according to him?

He always seem to maintain that all religions believe in one God and therefore does he really think that it is just an option for one like you and me to belong to Hinduism and it would make no difference it we belonged to any other religion?

I think Sri Ranganathan should answer Sri KRS only after a clear answer to the above questions are given. The reason is because Sri Sri Ranganathan might give it from the stand point of a Hindu and Sri KRS would be treating it not from the Hindu angle but from other religious or secular view. Here the playing field is not level.

My 2 cents.

[golozhopik]

Dear Kamakshi:

Hold on, there! While I shouldn't be speaking for Sri KRS, I feel that Sri KRS is definitely not advocating anything against Hinduism; if at all, I believe he is a staunch Hindu first, then a Brahmin.
Getting back to your statement that the 'four varnas were created by Lord Krishna', it is incredulous to think that the Lord would favor only four varnas and not others! We all are God's children and it is my firm belief that God DID NOT create varnas, religions, castes, or creed. They are all man-made. Having said all that, I believe in the Hinduism way of life; not in its dogmas but in its philosophical approach. I am not smart enough to write more on Hinduism!!

My question is:

Does Sri KRS believe that the four varnas created by Sri Krishna should be abolished in which case I do have to know as to what would be the difference between Hinduism and other religions according to him?

He always seem to maintain that all religions believe in one God and therefore does he really think that it is just an option for one like you and me to belong to Hinduism and it would make no difference it we belonged to any other religion?

I think Sri Ranganathan should answer Sri KRS only after a clear answer to the above questions are given. The reason is because Sri Sri Ranganathan might give it from the stand point of a Hindu and Sri KRS would be treating it not from the Hindu angle but from other religious or secular view. Here the playing field is not level.

My 2 cents.

[brraverishhh]

Dear Sri Silverfox Ji,

A 'Jathi Brahmin', in my definition would be most of us, who are anything but Brahmins except for our birth and lineage. We have abandoned the Varna Dharma prescrobed in our scriptures long ago.

To answer Srimathi Kamakshi Ji:

Let me quote my family Guru, the Maha Periaval, in 'Hindu Dharma':

"All religions have one common ideal, worship of the Lord, and all of them proclaim that there is but one God. This one God accepts your devotion irrespective of the manner of your worship, whether it is according to this or that religion. So there is no need to abandon the religion of your birth and embrace another.

The temple, the church, the mosque, the vihara may be different from one another. The idol or the symbol in them may not also be the same and the rites performed in them may be different. But the Paramatman who wants to grace the worshipper, whatever be his faith, is the same. The different religions have taken shape according to the customs peculiar to the countries in which they originated and according to the differences in the mental outlook of the people inhabiting them. The goal of all religions is to lead people to the same Paramatman according to the different attributes of the devotees concerned. So there is no need for people to change over to another faith. Converts demean not only the religion of their birth but also the one to which they convert. Indeed they do demean God."

This captures my own thinking about God and other religions. My questions, and I assure Sri N. R, Ranganathan Ji, are only from my religion's - Hinduism's - point of view, and not the least from any other points of view as Srimathi Kamakshi Ji alleges above.

I do not know from where she gets all these inferences about me - again she is too willing to categorize without any evidences about my thinking. If she wants to make such allegations, it would do her well to quote or cite any writings from myself to illustrate her point. Otherwise her mis-informed allegations just do not contribute positively to the discussions at hand.

Pranams,
KRS

[fabrizioitwloch]

Sri KRS,

Could you give me the exact URL for your quotation from Sri PeriavaaL?

[TritteTouff]

Dear friends,

I do not prejudge anyone. Since Sri KRS himself acknowledges Sri Maha
Periyaval as his Guru, where is the need to imagine something other than
what he really is. Even otherwise it is good to have meaningful discussions
and that too with someone who has views contrary to ours. Bertrand
Russel says that you can fortify your arguments only if you know the other
side , say, for instance if anyone advocates violence he should hear
Gandhiji's views or arguments against it.

I will come back with my reply and let me say that my reply will be based
on the arguments advanced by Periyaval in Deivathin Kural, Part 1 and Part 2 and Sri Adi Sankara's commentary on 'Srimad Bhagavat Gita '. Please give me
sometime as I have some urgent work of editing a spiritual journal to be
attended to within a time frame.

I sincerely apologise for the delay.

[broksaksaak]

Dear Sri KRS,

Sir, in the meantime, you can go through these links, if you have
time and inclination :-
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part3/chap8.htm
http://www.kamakoti.org/newlayout/te...sal+Well-Being
Thank you sir,

[GooogleGuy]

Dear Sri N. R. Ranganathan Ji,

Thank you for agreeing to reply to my questions, as well as for the reading material. I have gone through 'Hindu Dharma' several times over the last few years, but I will go over the chapters you have outlined again.

Thank you also for the civilized tone of your voice.

Pranams,
KRS

[Guaranano]

Dear Shri N.R. Ranganathan:
Thank you for providing these links. I am going thru all the different topics; however, the one titled "Who is Responsible for the Decay of Varna Dharma?" is one of the most powerful and thoughtful analysis on the downfall of Brahmins.
Thank you for your outstanding services to our community.

Dear Sri KRS,

Sir, in the meantime, you can go through these links, if you have
time and inclination :-
http://www.kamakoti.org/hindudharma/part3/chap8.htm
http://www.kamakoti.org/newlayout/te...sal+Well-Being
Thank you sir,

[Oswczrdz]

Baley Baley !!

Good to see so many weblinks and arguments all around !
There are so many things in this world learnt by experience !! One can relate the happenings in his life to the philosophy of Karma , devotion, love , ecstasy and so on and so forth !!
My mentor used to say " Throw him into the swim pool " and he will learn " How to swim / survive rather !!
Another good tamil proverb is " Yettu sorakkai , kootukku aagathu !"
i.e Knowledge is not worth a penny if u cannot experience its use in your lifetime !!
As mentioned , earlier , Hinduism is a way of life and people therefore conveniently pass from adolescence to their retirement age , conveniently living the HINDU way of life , without taking the trouble of knowing more about it !
But with some useful weblinks and discussions, the curious learner is benefited immensely !
Thanks to everyone who contributes !

[grizolsemn]

It is a fundamental tenet of Christianity that they should spread the message of Jesus. We talk about conversions and money being the sole motive.

One of the main reasons for conversions is the inability of the Hindu society to absorb all classes of people. The caste system is responsible for that. The system is so terrible that it has got into Christianity as well.

Instead of dumping the caste system and saying that "All human beings are born equal", we still talk about Varnashrama.

Another very important factor is the reluctance of the so called caste Hindus to accept the religious practices of the other castes. In what way are Isakki, Madan, and Raja Karuppannaswamy inferior to Shiva or Vishnu. Did you know that Mariamman is mentioned in Devi Mahatmya of Markendaya Purana. Maha Mari swarupaya ...

What is wrong with giving a hen or a goat as sacrifice when as per the Vedic texts Hindus used to offer Animal sacrifices.

What can we do?

Accept all the others as equal and accept their practices. I wonder how many of our Smartha Brahmins have heard the term "Nirguna Brahman" or read Keno Upanishad.

Note: I am not a secularist or whatever they call themselves. I am a Hindu who devotes most of his waking hours in study and contemplation as laid down by the Sasthras.

[Ufkkrxcq]

Quote: Nacchinarkiniyan:>

Dear Nacchinarkiniyan:
I enjoy your postings and agree with your observations. However, I was shocked to read your support for killing animals as sacrifice! So the Vedic texts said that Hindus used to offer animal sacrifice and Brahmins, too, ate meat. So what? Should we go back to those barbarous times?
I strongly believe that all creatures are God's creation and we have NO right to kill them, least of all, sacrifice them in the name of religion. If at all, we should try to persuade people who sacrifice, to stop that practice.

[Tibaveriafark]

I neither support nor object to animal sacrifices. What I strongly object is the imposition of a set of values on any community.

About killing of animals in general--A majority of Indians eat meat. The sacrifice in temples is conducted in a much more humane way than in any abattoir.

The number of animals sacrificed has come down drastically in the last decade. In time it may disappear altogether like many old obnoxious religious practices.

Animal sacrifice is a belief. We should not change it by law or force. I have personally known many people from the lower strata of society who give a Goat every year to their Kula Dheivam. They are simple people who have this belief. It is the proof of their Bhakthi.

The children have started objecting to the practice of sacrificing the lamb whom they have brought up so dearly.

I accept their belief not approve it.

[rusculture]

I neither support nor object to animal sacrifices. What I strongly object is the imposition of a set of values on any community.

I accept their belief not approve it.

Dear Sri Nacchinarkiniyan Ji,

I, like Sri Silverfox is appreciative of your very informative postings.

But here, you are precisely making a point, if followed, will allow anachronistic practices to continue in any religion.

Mormons of Utah practiced polygamy as a belief, before the U.S. laws prevented that practice to continue today. Child marriages were values of the Hindu society at one time before they were outlawed. So was 'Sathi'.

It can even be argued that Islam is in the straits it is now, precisely because it did not keep up with the times.

Varna Dharma, even though not practiced anymore, still is believed as a value and hence all this Jathi related issues. When one is confronted with issues like these, which go to the strongly held beliefs of a people, the only course is to show the negativity of such practices as applied to today's life. Things will change gradually.

It took Srimad Madhvacharya to outlaw animal sacrifices during rites several generations ago, but it will take the current generation to probably end it, once in for all.

Pranams,
KRS

[texprofi]

A few points to ponder ......

Does anyone take up eating Non-veg , defying all the practices of his fore-fathers unless he cannot do without it , due to non-availability of veg stuff-- The question of survival ????

What is the Ecological Balance that Science talks about ! If the population of Wild animals multiply and they come over to cities , wouldn't the existence of our human species be endangered ???
Just curious !!

[fedelwet]

You just do not do anything because your fore fathers did that. Ask for references. Read the Dharmasasthras and you may be surprised or shocked. And you will realise how much reformation has been carried out in Hinduism throughout generations. It is an ongoing process.

I remember a conversation with one of my friends who is a top scientist in BARC. I asked him why he does not pray to one of the popular Gods. He replied that he does not because his forefathers have laid down that custom and there must be some reason. The God was his wife's favourite deity.

I have given the above example only to show that many of our intellectuals become blind followers in the case of religion. It is a pity.

I am a vegetarian by choice. I have eaten non-vegetarian food.

You can call me Brahma-Chandala. Do not be surprised. In history there are some dynasties like Pallavas and Senas of Bengal who called themselves Brahma-Kshttriyas. Brahmin by birth and Kshttriya by profession. If I delve into history I am sure I can locate some Brahma-Vaisyas also. Since I was an engineeer by profession, I may be called Brahma-Chandala. I love that.

No hard feeling guys.

Having said that Hindus are great people in that they have not resorted to eating dogs, frogs, etc. etc. even when there were famines.

Stopping animal sacrifices will not make the rest of the world Vegetarian. The number of animals sacrificed in slaughter houses is far far greater than in places of worship. In Hindu temples the number may run to maximum 5000 in a year in the whole of India.

[Rufio]

A great msg!