[gniewkoit]

hi

my name is Angelo. Please present evidence, that the Quran is truly " Allah " 's word, and that it is not just a invention of some smart guys, that lived a some centuries ago. I would like to see hard, solid evidence.

Please do the same for the bible

[CoiI8XIj]

It's pretty obvious you never studied Islam.

About Quran and Bible;
a.
Regarding prophesies in the New Testament and Old Testament. Muslims believe the New Testament and Old Testament were originally Words of God before it's been altered by humans.

We are not talking about the bible, but about Quran.

And Quran was revealed little by little over the 23 years period. How do you KNOW ?

And see for yourself how much it's different from Quran. Why? Because;
- as a human, when we write something down, it's impossible for us to dissociate our narrations from our emotions. Can you find something like this in the Quran? Prophet Muhamad suffered a lot of rejections and hardships during his life, and yet there's none of his emotions in the Quran? If he was the author, how could he dissociate his emotion totally from his own narrations? how should that constitute evidence of truthness ?

Also why the narration styles are totally different from Quran and hadiths? i don't know. Why ?


Quran is promised by Allah that it will be protected. Should all the copies of the mashaf of Quran are destroyed today, there are millions of Muslims all over the world who memorize the Quran and an original copy can be restored back almost immediately. Ones again : that is a assertion without constituting evidence of truth whatsoever.

Can the same thing be said about Bible? again : this topic is not about doing comparisons. What i am asking for, is evidence of truthness of the Quran. So far, you have just made some unsupported assertions.




As for prophesies, you'll be astounded as the accuracies of the events unfolding as told in Quran and also hadith. I thought there are no prophecies in quran ?


Enemy of Allah will be spending huge amount of money to overcome Islam, but they will fail. See at what happened in Iraq and Afghanistan. Every time a newer IED comes out, the US and Allies forces have to upgrade the whole set of armours, and every new batch will cost taxpayers billions. And the US will spend more. Excuse me ? You wanna say they are in these coutries to destroy Quran ? you might come down to reality......

Do you know that Quran correctly addresses the ruler of Egypt before Pharaoh as King, whereas Bible failed at that? There are many of these examples and you can see it on youtubes, especially from our brothers who reverted from christianity. Never heard about that. Please detail what its all about.

- Do you know that Islam has five phases altogether? The first phase is Prophethood (Muhammad ), then the rule according to the method of Prophethood (the first four caliphs - more or less 32 years), then "biting kingdom" - Ummayah, Abbasiyah, Ottoman, etc - 1400 years. Then oppressive rulers (hosni mubarak, muamar gadafi, etc). Then the method of the Prophethood. we will revive the Islamic Caliphate and rule according to the method of Prophethood once again. where is this written in quran, and please, present the parallels to history, and fullfilled prophecy.

- Do you know that the war in Afghanistan has already been foretold by our Prophet ? The non muslims will invite each other like inviting friends to dinner to attack Khorasan, a nation of poor people, but the non-muslim will fail. please show it in quran.

- Abyan Eden in Yemen. 12,000 Muslim army will come out of Abyan Eden to help liberate Muslim cities from the enemy. please show the versicle in quran, and the corresponding historic event.



How about other ones;
- Parents will give birth to their masters.
- Women will wear clothes but still naked.
- Bribes will be considered as a gift.
- Interest based economy will be global that even a person tries so hard to not get involved in it, the 'dust' from the system will still affect him/her.
- Crimes will be rampant. The killer wouldn't know why he/she killed a person, and the victim wouldn't know why he/she was killed.
- Naked, destitute, barefoot shepherds will compete in building tall buildings. [The modern ex-nomads of Saudi Arabia are an excellent example of this.]
- The worldly wealth will be in abundance in the Arab peninsula.
- Earthquakes will increase.
- Time will pass more quickly.

and many more. ok. please show the versicles in quran which do threat about these issues.

The question is, why wouldn't it happen NOT according to the signs foretold by the Prophet ? maibe because its all human invention ?

[CoiI8XIj]

Hello Angelo. The belief in Islam is the only logical religious belief.

What has logic to do with truth ?



The Christian belief that God became a man is severely flawed. They would say God is perfect, then would say He became a man. A man has flaws (imperfect sight, hearing), limitations (physical stature, strength), and needs (sleep, food, etc). Also, saying God became something else, means that God was not perfect in the first place, and became something else. A change in state is not perfection. Christians also believe God is in paradise. This is also flawed as it places God in a location. This entails God is limited by a location and also is a certain size, which is equivalent to idol worship and means God is not perfect. The book of Genesis also states God created and then 'slept'. This is another weaknees, namely a need. There are several other problems with Christianity, which seems to be based on 'you just have to believe, don't question it.' Do you wanna bring evidence why you believe in quran, or why you do not believe in the bible ? this topic should not be bible spanking.....


The holy book of Islam, the Qur'an mentions many things that have only recently been discovered such as the preservation of Pharoah's body (discovered only about 120 years ago), please show where it mentions it.



the expansion of the universe (discovered only about 80 years ago), the origins of creation (which is similar to the Big Bang) for a few examples. please show that undoubtly the quran meant the expansion of the universe, as scientifically known today.

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a righteous and truthful man who also performed many miracles such as splitting the moon in half Wow, amazing. How do you know this is true ? My spaghettimonster also visited me last night. Can you prove me i am wrong ?



and having water gush through his hands to satiate an army. These were witnessed and documented by many people. We believe that God sent Prophets (Adam, Moses, Jesus for a few examples, peace be upon them all) that told mankind to worship the One True God, but mankind gradually went against this message and the true message became lost/corrupted (i.e. present Judaism, Christianity for examples), and that God sent Muhammad (peace be upon him) as the last messenger to remind mankind again to worship the One True God. Where is the hard evidence this is true ?

To be honest, so far no hard evidence at all in my view........

[CoiI8XIj]

Please do the same for the bible

that is not the issue of this topic. I know, bible spanking is a beloved sport of muslims, its easy..... To present concrete evidence, the Quran is true, is however a different issue all together.....

[tefraxKedWere]

Angelo, sorry if this is offensive but, are you a Christian or an atheist?

About the evidences given by everyone here: Not all of this is from the Quran, some of it is from Hadith.

I do not currently have the time to go through all the evidences provided by everyone and cite the source, but inshaAllah someone will do so for you.

[diemeareendup]

What has logic to do with truth ?





Do you wanna bring evidence why you believe in quran, or why you do not believe in the bible ? this topic should not be bible spanking.....




please show where it mentions it.





please show that undoubtly the quran meant the expansion of the universe, as scientifically known today.



Wow, amazing. How do you know this is true ? My spaghettimonster also visited me last night. Can you prove me i am wrong ?





Where is the hard evidence this is true ?

To be honest, so far no hard evidence at all in my view........

Logic has a great deal to do with the truth. No one will accept something that doesn't make sense. If you tell me God is perfect then say that He becomes an imperfect man, this does not make sense and is illogical, and is impossible that it is true. If you told me 1 + 1 = 3, I would tell you it is illogical and it is impossible that this is true.

Regarding verses about universe expansion: Surah 51, verse 47. Regarding verses about preserving Pharaoh's body: Surah 10 verses 90-92. Regarding origins of the universe: Surah 21, verse 31.

Regarding splitting of the moon and satiating the army, as I stated before, these have been transmitted by several reliable people, the chains of transmission being documented. For example, see Sahih Bukhari 4:56:830-832, 5:58:208-211.

Regarding you seeing your 'spaghettimonster', which you would deem as something extraordinary, you have no other witnesses. What other miracles have you allegedly performed so we can assume you can see/do extraordinary things, and who witnessed them? Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had performed several, which were witnessed by many. The Qur'an contains many miracles as I referenced for you, and everyone who reads the verses is a witness to the miracles that this book contains.

Again, we do not have 'blind faith'. Read the references (i.e. your hard evidence) for yourself.

[actioliGalm]

that is not the issue of this topic. I know, bible spanking is a beloved sport of muslims, its easy..... To present concrete evidence, the Quran is true, is however a different issue all together.....

you asked if the Quran is authored by a man. And you refused to do any of the suggested actions by the replies you have here. Are you trolling or do you really want to know the truth for yourself?

If you're just trolling, go mind your own business.

If truth is what you seek, then read the suggested links which have actually answered your repetitive questions.

Then we can discuss.

[13spebampiliece]

hi

my name is Angelo. Please present evidence, that the Quran is truly " Allah " 's word, and that it is not just a invention of some smart guys, that lived a some centuries ago. I would like to see hard, solid evidence.

Angelo-
evidence is given to those who have the ability to accept it....
so many bro's gave u so many evidences but u r attitude is: "y to belive" "y to belive" & when the angel of death come & grab u r soul then u 'll say "y i dint believe"

well u r intention coming here doesn't seem GUIDANCE.so if thats the case then even if jesus crist (peace be upon him) comes(which v believe he will) & says u, u r not gonno accept.

if u truely want guidance then before sleeping every night pray(with out any picture in mind)..
"O Allah! show me the path which U like
not the one which I like"

[CoiI8XIj]

Logic has a great deal to do with the truth. No one will accept something that doesn't make sense.

Neither does everything, that makes sense, have to be true.



If you tell me God is perfect then say that He becomes an imperfect man, this does not make sense and is illogical, and is impossible that it is true. If you told me 1 + 1 = 3, I would tell you it is illogical and it is impossible that this is true. Nobody is telling that God became a imperfect man, but that is NOT the issue of this topic.

Regarding verses about universe expansion: Surah 51, verse 47. Please can you cite them here. So we can have a look together.


Regarding splitting of the moon and satiating the army, as I stated before, these have been transmitted by several reliable people, How do you know they were reliable ?


Regarding you seeing your 'spaghettimonster', which you would deem as something extraordinary, you have no other witnesses. Well, there is a lot of witness for UFO's, too.......

Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) had performed several, which were witnessed by many. So have many other founders of other religions.... Why should Prophet Mohammed be right, the others not ?


The Qur'an contains many miracles as I referenced for you, that is circular reasoning. The quran is right because he says so......

[CoiI8XIj]

you asked if the Quran is authored by a man. And you refused to do any of the suggested actions by the replies you have here. Are you trolling or do you really want to know the truth for yourself?

If you're just trolling, go mind your own business.

If truth is what you seek, then read the suggested links which have actually answered your repetitive questions.

Then we can discuss.

I am not trolling. Are you incapable to defend your faith by your own words, or at least post and quote arguments that do defend your faith ?????

[anfuckinggs]

Angelo, sorry if this is offensive but, are you a Christian or an atheist?

About the evidences given by everyone here: Not all of this is from the Quran, some of it is from Hadith.

I do not currently have the time to go through all the evidences provided by everyone and cite the source, but inshaAllah someone will do so for you.

Please discuss one point at a time with this brother-he could be genuine.
Wassalam
PS: It will be better if only one person was talking to this brother.

[CoiI8XIj]

Angelo-
evidence is given to those who have the ability to accept it....

Nope. Evidence is given regardless of that. If someone regards it afterwards as compelling, or not, are a little different issue.....



so many bro's gave u so many evidences I have not seen any so far. Just blind assertions like: The quran is true, because it says so. Similar i can say : The gospel of the flying Spaghetti monster is true, because it says so......

but u r attitude is: "y to belive" "y to belive" & when the angel of death come & grab u r soul then u 'll say "y i dint believe" thats not what i said. What i would like, is to see compelling reasons to believe, Mohammed said the truth, and is truly send by Allah.

well u r intention coming here doesn't seem GUIDANCE. Well, i am open to be guided. But to do so, i need good reasons to believe, what you believe, most probably reflects the truth.


so if thats the case then even if jesus crist (peace be upon him) comes(which v believe he will) & says u, u r not gonno accept. Who told you i do not believe in Jesus return ?

if u truely want guidance then before sleeping every night pray(with out any picture in mind)..
"O Allah! show me the path which U like
not the one which I like" I have done so. Guess what ? Allah showed me a other path...... So who is right ?

[actioliGalm]

I am not trolling. Are you incapable to defend your faith by your own words, or at least post and quote arguments that do defend your faith ?????

Far from incapable. You can search all the debates on the net. Search youtube how Shabir Ali and other debaters obliterated Christian belief system. All you do is shouting "where's the evidence!' whereupon when you're asked to read, you didn't. If you're really searching for the truth, you would give some efforts to at least coming back with more in-depth questions (which should be after reading all the given articles).

You say you have the truth, yet it's been proven again and again that the foundation of the Christianity theology crumbled against assaults be it from Islam or others.

Anyway, are you a catholic or others?

[delnisfernan]

Start with first principle of Oneness of God!!
You will find Islam is unique both phisophically, theologically in this regard and overcome all criticism where as other fails. It is clear and unambigious.
The rest will follow.
Quran itself is a masterpiece and is yet to be challanged linguistically and every aspects of Arabic language.
Before you try to authenticate something, have your process ready and then see if it passes.
Go and attend few lectures to get the ball rolling.
http://www.hamzatzortzis.com/?page_id=161

It is odd one claims to find the truth and yet seems not to make a sincer search for it.

[PolPitasc]

Bismillah Al-Rehman Al-Raheem

Dear Brother Angelo,

May Allah guide you and all of us to the Straight Path and give us the strength to understand and do His will.

You have asked a number of us why we follow the religion of Islam. I cannot answer for anyone else, but I have revealed my story of my journey to Islam in this post. You may read or not (as per your wish).

Brother, a number of people have genuinely responded to you, investing their time and energy in crafting their words to you and sharing with you good resources, but you keep focusing on your own belief as the point of reference so much so that you dismiss them and their words. Kindly do not do that, because you are not taking advantage of what you yourself have said you wished to know, which is why they follow Islam.

I know you know this, but I write herein to remind you that in any conversation or discussion, two people are involved. But you do not seem to be following what anyone is saying/has said to you, not hearing nor listening what they have said. If you really want to learn why we believe as we do, you must avail yourself of the resources provided you to understand why certain people have shared with you those resources to explain why they believe in Islam. How can you expect to have a productive discussion/conversation if you principally ignore what is presented to you?

What you are intending to do, have us question ourselves is admirable, but you are doing so from the assumption that we have blind faith. We do not. Blind faith works well for fools or simpletons, but I hope we can both agree that we do not want to fall in either of those categories. If we do not, however, then we have to be willing to engage on the ground that the other is prepared to cover/has covered. By saying this, I mean for you to understand that you cannot simply ask questions, ignore the answers provided and then say we have not answered your questions.

As human beings, we own and assume responsibility for our own learning or understanding. But I have not seen you so far engage in that exercise. So, please be sincere with us and yourself also. In the end, you hurt yourself, not us, because you are the one missing out on a great opportunity to learn the "why."

We are busy people, busy with the truth. We have to worry for our afterlife, and therefore you will see our willingness to engage and share in direct proportion to how much we see the listener/hearer interacting with whatever information is presented. I hope you understand that we cannot afford to waste our time (as your time, my time, and everybody's time is precious as we have a limited amount), and I thereby hope you will take our words henceforth seriously and engage other person by learning the information they present you first and foremost.

I humbly ask that you please reread over other people's responses and take the time to understand whatever words they have written in their kindness. In the end, you may disagree with them; and that is all right. Religion is a matter of conviction, and then we must simply agree to disagree.

Peace upon those who follow the Guidance of the Guide.

Thank you.

If I have said anything that is good and true, it is from Allah; and anything other than that is my own mistake.

[CoiI8XIj]

Far from incapable. You can search all the debates on the net. Search youtube how Shabir Ali and other debaters obliterated Christian belief system.

I do not need to search anything. I want to discuss with people, which are capable to present their arguments right here at this topic.



All you do is shouting "where's the evidence!' whereupon when you're asked to read, you didn't. I am reading and answering, who writes and presents the arguments right here. Can you do that ?

If you're really searching for the truth, you would give some efforts to at least coming back with more in-depth questions (which should be after reading all the given articles). Well, let me ask you : how is it possible Muhammad to split the moon, and no literature worldwide of that time reported observing such a highly unprobable event ? If he did so, but no impartial entity reported the miracle, it is worthless evidence.

You say you have the truth, yet it's been proven again and again that the foundation of the Christianity theology crumbled against assaults be it from Islam or others. please remain on topic. If you want to use bible bash tactic, search a other topic, where you are asked to do so.

Anyway, are you a catholic or others? i am a evangelical christian.

[CoiI8XIj]

Start with first principle of Oneness of God!!
You will find Islam is unique both phisophically, theologically in this regard and overcome all criticism where as other fails. It is clear and unambigious.

proponents of other religions say so as well..... so what ?




Quran itself is a masterpiece and is yet to be challanged linguistically and every aspects of Arabic language. Odysseus is so as well.....


It is odd one claims to find the truth and yet seems not to make a sincer search for it. how do you know i do not sincerly search the truth ?

[CoiI8XIj]

Brother, a number of people have genuinely responded to you, investing their time and energy in crafting their words to you and sharing with you good resources, but you keep focusing on your own belief

Nope, i am focusing on YOUR belief, and would like to see where the evidence is, to retain it as a compelling truth system. So far, i have only received superficial wishy washy answers. Any substantial evidence on hand to present here, that makes it reasonable to believe, islam could have something more to offer, than baseless claims ?

as the point of reference so much so that you dismiss them and their words. Kindly do not do that, because you are not taking advantage of what you yourself have said you wished to know, which is why they follow Islam. I am very well open to convert to islam, if you are capable to presend worth and hard evidence, islam presents the truth.

I know you know this, but I write herein to remind you that in any conversation or discussion, two people are involved. But you do not seem to be following what anyone is saying/has said to you Well, i am actually are following very well the arguments. But i wont be convinced simply by circular arguments, and baseless assertions without evidence whatsoever. Let me ask you : have you ever felt the wish to be sure Allah has forgiven your sins ?
Do you have the desire to have a close relationship in prayer with Allah ?



, not hearing nor listening what they have said. If you really want to learn why we believe as we do, you must avail yourself of the resources provided you to understand why certain people have shared with you those resources to explain why they believe in Islam. So far, it seems to me just, that people wish to believe in islam, and because of their will, they believe. But not because there is hard evidence on hand , that makes it compelling to believe, Islam is the right answer to know God, and the truth.


How can you expect to have a productive discussion/conversation if you principally ignore what is presented to you? I have not ignored it. I just don't buy superficial arguments without compelling evidence whatsoever. Anyone can come and make some assertions. The quest is, if there is good reason to believe the story teller......

What you are intending to do, have us question ourselves is admirable, but you are doing so from the assumption that we have blind faith. Nothing else you have shown so far.


We do not. Blind faith works well for fools or simpletons, but I hope we can both agree that we do not want to fall in either of those categories. Yes, you do not want to. But then you should be able to present compelling evidence for your faith system......



If we do not, however, then we have to be willing to engage on the ground that the other is prepared to cover/has covered. By saying this, I mean for you to understand that you cannot simply ask questions, ignore the answers provided and then say we have not answered your questions. You have answered them, but without giving good reasons to believe, your faith tells the truth.

As human beings, we own and assume responsibility for our own learning or understanding. But I have not seen you so far engage in that exercise. Oh, i know i am well responsable for my actions, decisions etc.....



So, please be sincere with us and yourself also. I am 100% sincere to tell you, that non of the answers given so far, are compelling evidence to me, islam tells the truth.



In the end, you hurt yourself or maibe you delude yourself, but do not aknowledge it..... thought about that possibility ?



not us, because you are the one missing out on a great opportunity to learn the "why." or you might miss the possibility to open your eyes, and see that what you believe in, is nothing than a illusion ?

We are busy people, busy with the truth. So am i.



We have to worry for our afterlife absolutely. And if you reject Jesus Christ and his sacrifice, but it was indeed as the bible says, and not as how the Quran says, you are doomed... imagined that ? so far you have not presented compelling reasons, why quran should be the truth.....



and therefore you will see our willingness to engage and share in direct proportion to how much we see the listener/hearer interacting with whatever information is presented. Are you prepared to do so also in regard of my information ?



I hope you understand that we cannot afford to waste our time (as your time, my time, and everybody's time is precious as we have a limited amount), and I thereby hope you will take our words henceforth seriously and engage other person by learning the information they present you first and foremost. I will absolutely do so. Promise !!

I humbly ask that you please reread over other people's responses and take the time to understand whatever words they have written in their kindness. Have you a special reason to believe, i have not done so ?

[Sapremolz]

JiL, I read your posts as troll fodder. There are numerous responses which you have just ignored so you can keep on message.

I was Christian and converted to Islam and have encountered your type all of my life.

The Quran authenticates the office of prophet and messenger of God for Muhammad (saaw). The Quran is the arabic text. The arabic text of the Quran is inimitable and miraculous.

A miracle, as in cannot be replicated and is thus contrary to what normally occurs in the laws of nature.

I really don't see a point to this thread, except to show how JiL is impervious to anything Muslim's say to him.

[ayWCZ7VT]

What evidence do you have, that muhammad told the truth ?

What evidence do you have that jesus is lord?