[12Dvop4I]

It was astonishing to read this thread considering your knowledge and links with Ulama.

Laypeople like us cannot really give you an answer, and I am sure that you must be already aware of this. I would concur with the sister's reply especially the above line. However, just my two cents that, yes there is a real problem with salafis which is not following an established school. This is only creating further divisions amongst the ummah and we can see for ourselves that salafis themselves have differing opinions on many matters because of self Ijtihad by many and most not even capable of it.

As for Anti-salafism, it is necessary when a group spreads mischief about the Imaams (some even calling them kaafirs), or people start calling one and all to interpret the Holy Quran and Ahadith themselves..Our Ulama are doing a good job and may Allah ta'ala reward them for 'nahi al an munkar' against misleading fatawas of the salafis such as considering three talaqs as one, or against anthropomorphism etc..

If you are talking about those salafis who are in fact following the Hanbali school of thought then they should at least be made to realize it (that they follow a set of scholars), or perhaps they too might get swayed with the know and teach yourself salafis.

May Allah guide us all towards the straight path.

[gfkasjhfg]

My intention is to stop all this anti-salafism that we have in ourselves and carry on with our own line.

Good for you Maulana that you are living with them. I shall speak for myself - I shall make Hijrah away from them if I have the strength to do so. Their ideology is so suffocating.

[Romobencience]

Be it salafis or barelwis, it is not good to build hatred for them. Only Allah SWT knows how many of them are close to Allah SWT than us. Yes there are trouble makers but such a blind hatred for all of them based on sect wont do any good. I have witnessed a barelwi type uncle leaving this dunya with a peaceful smile and so I have heard from my father that the best smile he has seen was of a ahl-e-hadith uncle when he died. He was known to be an abid from young. Those who get close to him become deeni.

I have to add that salafis or their gps used efficient ways to reach youth. When many of the youths try the best to follow deen, we should know salafis too are among them and they can be more sincere in the path of Allah SWT. When they got salafi type imams as a means of guidance, they simply follow them like how we follow. Many can be ignorant of certain thins as they hear from their ulema but they try to lead a pious life as much as they can. They strive to be good muslims like how we are. I know there are ahlehadith families who are just fine with others too be it tableeghis and so on. If possible explain to them in simple terms and do not shoot them with words of hatred as they come along. If they dont just leave them and move on with your own work. I see sometimes too much of extremism when describing about them which is quite hurtful. Personally I can never accept this attitude. This hatred is quite sickening be it for salafis or barelwis. I wish we learn not to look down others and have azmat for muslims. Allahu alam
wassalam

[Keeriewof]

It was astonishing to read this thread considering your knowledge and links with Ulama.



I would concur with the sister's reply especially the above line. However, just my two cents that, yes there is a real problem with salafis which is not following an established school. This is only creating further divisions amongst the ummah and we can see for ourselves that salafis themselves have differing opinions on many matters because of self Ijtihad by many and most not even capable of it.

As for Anti-salafism, it is necessary when a group spreads mischief about the Imaams (some even calling them kaafirs), or people start calling one and all to interpret the Holy Quran and Ahadith themselves..Our Ulama are doing a good job and may Allah ta'ala reward them for 'nahi al an munkar' against misleading fatawas of the salafis such as considering three talaqs as one, or against anthropomorphism etc..

If you are talking about those salafis who are in fact following the Hanbali school of thought then they should at least be made to realize it (that they follow a set of scholars), or perhaps they too might get swayed with the know and teach yourself salafis.

May Allah guide us all towards the straight path.

there needs to be a balance. normally people don't know who salafis are. you mention hanbalis what about those who do taqleed mutlaq? however in refuting salafis you must admit people and groups take it too far. the number of times I have seen them being called khawarij , zindeeq and kafir. and when asked for evidence they point at the al e saud's friendship with US, their tall buildings and therefore by virtue of this all salafis are judged.

anti-salafism has very grave consequences on the political and social level for Muslims. recently in UK a scholar gave the fatwa that women should not wear the niqab there as they would resemble the salafis. imagine the hatred they have for them. people were ready to go overseas to kill libyan salafis for desecrating the tomb and reburial but none of them would go overseas to fight kuffar doing much much worse. in many areas where j!had is fard e ayn on people (because of the actions of kuffar and secular muslims), they do not pick up arms because salafis are leading from the front. so they go back to their mosques and warn against the najdis. salafi dawah is among the strongest in the world (look at what iERA did recently). what are the muqallid sufis doing to counter it or even equal their pace? some people hate Save Maryam simply because they are run by salafis. it is astonishing.

instead of looking for ways to bridge the gap between themselves and salafis they form a cocoon in which they want their respective groups to hide and practice the Islam the kuffar or secularists would allow them. it is madhabi hizbiyat at its best. it is this hatred which manifests in people labeling deobandis as najdis and khawarij. partly because of their stance on bid'ah and partly because they have a neutral view of salafis and partly because their ulema have been proactive and majority never believed in sitting idle as long as their masjid were in their hands.

i was recently looking at evidences for hadra. and i am also translating a salafi book. you know, there is no difference in the way both showed their ruling was correct one. both used ayats and hadiths and also opinion and fatawa of eminent scholars of the past. these are also salafis. if I didnt tell you the pro-hadra people were sufis you would probably think (and be astonished by it) that it was written salafis!

hence there needs to be a balance. the ulema who are balanced never stop criticizing salafis yet they don't go overboard either.

[OlgaBorovikovva]

Alhamdulillah for this thread... it is neutralizing attention to another.

[Hokimjers]

I had no clue about salafis etc. before I joined SF and I still don't quite get them however, judging by my limited exposure (through SF), it seems to me salafis are the ones who have a problem with us... drawing us into debates etc. and not the other way around?

[hapasaparaz]

The only problem i find with (extreme) Salafis of the UK is that they walk around with a Tabdee' gun in one hand and Sh. al-Albanis prayer of the Prophet in the other.

[blackjackiisre]

I had no clue about salafis etc. before I joined SF and I still don't quite get them however, judging by my limited exposure (through SF), it seems to me salafis are the ones who have a problem with us... drawing us into debates etc. and not the other way around?

please see post 16 and 8.

[Lotyqnag]

I had no clue about salafis etc. before I joined SF and I still don't quite get them however, judging by my limited exposure (through SF), it seems to me salafis are the ones who have a problem with us... drawing us into debates etc. and not the other way around?

Well yes there are like that but many just stick to salafism as matter of sticking to deen. Every one comes to deen influenced by one way or the other and so is the case with them. We sometimes should understand them and their background. Some I know they love arguing for sake of arguments but there are many who are not like that. When things get explained, they understand.
Khair whatever I wanted to say is hating them blindly is not good. We should just move on with tolerance. When they come for discussion or arguments, let the knowledgable refute and thats it. We should not hold hatred towards them in our hearts. There are shuhadah among them, pious among them. They can be far better than us. They too should think the same when it comes to us but if they dont it is their problem. We should not act like them. Allahu alam

[Biradallo]

[I personally have no problem with this and agree with you (all). As a person with limited understanding of the subject, I think this thread is really important - it puts the issue in balance, otherwise in my ignorance I could mistake some of what is being said elsewhere as important and worth investigating further... JazakAllah khayran for the links too. I will look into them later today insha'Allah.]

[PareKeect]

there needs to be a balance. normally people don't know who salafis are. you mention hanbalis what about those who do taqleed mutlaq? however in refuting salafis you must admit people and groups take it too far. the number of times I have seen them being called khawarij , zindeeq and kafir. and when asked for evidence they point at the al e saud's friendship with US, their tall buildings and therefore by virtue of this all salafis are judged.

anti-salafism has very grave consequences on the political and social level for Muslims. recently in UK a scholar gave the fatwa that women should not wear the niqab there as they would resemble the salafis. imagine the hatred they have for them. people were ready to go overseas to kill libyan salafis for desecrating the tomb and reburial but none of them would go overseas to fight kuffar doing much much worse. in many areas where j!had is fard e ayn on people (because of the actions of kuffar and secular muslims), they do not pick up arms because salafis are leading from the front. so they go back to their mosques and warn against the najdis. salafi dawah is among the strongest in the world (look at what iERA did recently). what are the muqallid sufis doing to counter it or even equal their pace? some people hate Save Maryam simply because they are run by salafis. it is astonishing.

instead of looking for ways to bridge the gap between themselves and salafis they form a cocoon in which they want their respective groups to hide and practice the Islam the kuffar or secularists would allow them. it is madhabi hizbiyat at its best. it is this hatred which manifests in people labeling deobandis as najdis and khawarij. partly because of their stance on bid'ah and partly because they have a neutral view of salafis and partly because their ulema have been proactive and majority never believed in sitting idle as long as their masjid were in their hands.

i was recently looking at evidences for hadra. and i am also translating a salafi book. you know, there is no difference in the way both showed their ruling was correct one. both used ayats and hadiths and also opinion and fatawa of eminent scholars of the past. these are also salafis. if I didnt tell you the pro-hadra people were sufis you would probably think (and be astonished by it) that it was written salafis!

hence there needs to be a balance. the ulema who are balanced never stop criticizing salafis yet they don't go overboard either.

Extremists exist everywhere and it wouldn't be just to bring that point in here like those you mentioned. I haven't heard of Ulama labeling Salafis as kafirs and more so for absurd reasons like tall buildings :s..and people willing to kill salafis in libya is yet another extreme which is too something new to read. What I meant by anti-salafism is what I wrote next to it i.e. to speak against their incorrect rulings and methodology and it cannot be matched with hatred against other groups which I agree that people do have and is erroneous & destructive to unity (but it is not limited to anyone particular group either).

I did not say that they are not doing any good and only pointed out that our scholars speak against that which is wrong and it is correct to do so. Just because they are using good methods, reaching to the youths and supporting charity programs or even bring out similar evidences to practices, should we accept their incorrect ideology as well ?..

I do not think my answer was exaggerating against salafism and it was in response to the query of "any real problem with salafis" which is why I pointed out a few problems..I was not talking on behalf of those who take it towards extremes so it isn't correct to ask me to admit anything..As for my mentioning hanbalis what I meant was those laymen who tag themselves as salafis (while following the hanbali school) should be made aware of the problems of self-interpretations which they might get into due to resembling with Salafi's.

Anyhow, what can be done is admire there efforts for spreading of deen but at the same time point out their errors and this is what I think is being done by upright scholars.

[alfredtaniypnx]

Assalamu alaykum

One masjid iamong hundreds of masajid following the saudi calendar and starting ramdhan a day early, and idul fitr a day before others. What is the message?

[otheloComRole]

Extremists exist everywhere and it wouldn't be just to bring that point in here like those you mentioned. I haven't heard of Ulama labeling Salafis as kafirs and more so for absurd reasons like tall buildings :s..and people willing to kill salafis in libya is yet another extreme which is too something new to read. What I meant by anti-salafism is what I wrote next to it i.e. to speak against their incorrect rulings and methodology and it cannot be matched with hatred against other groups which I agree that people do have and is erroneous & destructive to unity (but it is not limited to anyone particular group either).

I did not say that they are not doing any good and only pointed out that our scholars speak against that which is wrong and it is correct to do so. Just because they are using good methods, reaching to the youths and supporting charity programs or even bring out similar evidences to practices, should we accept their incorrect ideology as well ?..

I do not think my answer was exaggerating against salafism and it was in response to the query of "any real problem with salafis" which is why I pointed out a few problems..I was not talking on behalf of those who take it towards extremes so it isn't correct to ask me to admit anything..As for my mentioning hanbalis what I meant was those laymen who tag themselves as salafis (while following the hanbali school) should be made aware of the problems of self-interpretations which they might get into due to resembling with Salafi's.

Anyhow, what can be done is admire there efforts for spreading of deen but at the same time point out their errors and this is what I think is being done by upright scholars.

hmm what you wrote regarding your views on salafis cannot be called anti-salafism actually. and no tolerance doesn't necessarily mean acceptance. but we mustn't criticize something salafi just because it is salafi. otherwise we can end up like 'extremists' as you called them.

well i have seen both ulema and laymen calling salafis as khawarij. it is mostly laymen (you know; like us, knowledgeable laymen) who call them zindeeq and kafir.

[sapedotru]

I have gone through many phases of fluctuations in my thoughts about the Salafis. In all my honesty i concluded that there might be issues with the behavior of Salafis but there is nothing wrong in their Aqaid , usool and Fiqh. The more i think about it , the more i get convinced that they represent the real Islam. Though , like most of the people here , i have issues with there behavior but at the same time i think that it might be my ego or nafs may be which makes the Salafi behavior unacceptable to me.

[Vznvtthq]

Assalamu alaykum

The more i think about it , the more i get convinced that they represent the real Islam. Doctor sahib.

Let me analyze your statement.

Did real Islam didn't exist for about thousand plus years.

Were the fiqh rulings by salaf were all wrong. And why did the wrong continued for thousand plus years. Why did the muhadditeen, mufassireen, muwarriqeen and scholars who were capable of independent ijtihaad continued with the wrong. The silence reflects their approval.

Let me recall the hadeeth

Mafhoom: My Ummah will not gather on dhalala (deviance)

Doctor sahib;
May be you didn't give a serious listening to others versions.

I would have been a salafee decades back. I also passed through a similar stage.

[Anteneprorid]

[...]
and people willing to kill salafis in libya is yet another extreme which is too something new to read.
[...]

Unfortunately, I've seen people claiming that, it was in comments section of a post on a blog regarding what happened to the grave of Shaykh Ahmad Zarruq. http://seekerofthesacredknowledge.wo...ated-in-libya/

[VYholden]

hmm what you wrote regarding your views on salafis cannot be called anti-salafism actually. and no tolerance doesn't necessarily mean acceptance. but we mustn't criticize something salafi just because it is salafi. otherwise we can end up like 'extremists' as you called them.

well i have seen both ulema and laymen calling salafis as khawarij. it is mostly laymen (you know; like us, knowledgeable laymen) who call them zindeeq and kafir.

Is anti-salafism something different from opposing salafism ?..I do not think knowledgeable laymen like us call them as such^ or maybe I haven't seen such laymen either..I think we are on the same side of the argument and what I did was only highlight the differences which you might have got wrong which is why my reply was quoted in your earlier post..Again I didn't say such that tolerance should mean acceptance and neither do I belief as such. I am not getting why my posts are being quoted in yours as I did not simply criticize them for their label but for things which I belief are incorrect and I further clarified my stance thereafter in the next post too..if it is something that I said which sounded wrong then kindly highlight it so I may know of it inshaAllah.

[triardwonvada]

salafis are derivates of rai bin nafas....!

thats why they give fatwas of their own, dont follow madhab, give tafseer of quran on their own, dont follow method and tariqa of salaf, their tafseers are even contradictory to tafseer of suhabah like Abdullah Ibn Abbas

[valensds]

Is anti-salafism something different from opposing salafism ?..I do not think knowledgeable laymen like us call them as such^ or maybe I haven't seen such laymen either..I think we are on the same side of the argument and what I did was only highlight the differences which you might have got wrong which is why my reply was quoted in your earlier post..Again I didn't say such that tolerance should mean acceptance and neither do I belief as such. I am not getting why my posts are being quoted in yours as I did not simply criticize them for their label but for things which I belief are incorrect and I further clarified my stance thereafter in the next post too..if it is something that I said which sounded wrong then kindly highlight it so I may know of it inshaAllah.

i was actually quoting you to further the discussion and not necessarily criticizing what you said.

look anti-salafism is what you called extremism. opposing in matters where they are wrong is necessary but it should not lead to extremism.

[Heessduernbub]

dont follow madhab, give tafseer of quran on their own,

please read this thread