[RussellPG]

When exactly did the right wing goal lose sight of a "small federal government" and replace that idea with a Christian Theocracy? Do they not realize that this is going to cause a huge rift between Americans and cause more domestic unrest than we've seen since the great depression? Why do people overlook the Establishment Clause? Do they think Jesus would want them to force their faith and values on people through political might? Do they not realize that Jesus was martyred because of the political power of a predominant religion?

[LorencoLoricelli]

You're way overestimating the "power" of the "Christian right".

They make an easy scapegoat for Democrats who keep losing elections, but there's far more to it than that.

Mainstream America was (and perhaps still is) flat out SICK of the message and mantra of the DNC - as articulated by Michael Moore, Hollywood and MoveOn.org..

And from what I can see, the leadership of the DNC is doing the party no favors whatsoever. The Alito confirmation hearings are the epitome of that.

It's not the fault of the "Christian right". They're nowhere near as big a player as people think.

[weO1bVp1]

So, just hypothetically, how powerful is this giant conspiracy of Christians? What exactly are they doing?

As far as I can tell, they are brainwashing voters that Abortion and Gay Marriage should be outlawed... Wow, that's a heavy-duty conspiracy, and it isn't even working. Where else exactly is the Christian Right controlling the government? Oh, that's right, they are making the government establish Christmas. What else am I forgeting?

As Mr. Jefferson said, I think that you're calling a genuine grassroots system of beliefs an evil conspiracy, and then you are blaming your conspiracy on the failures of the Democratic party.

Now you did mention that the Right is moving away from Libertarianism and consistently adopting pro-corporate fascism, but while they are coming to advocate increased government regulation I believe it would be far-fetched to say that they are becoming merged with any religious issues, beyond the stupid wedge issues of Abortion and Gay Marriage.

[CxofxJFm]

Well, we may seem some legislating from the bench (in conservatives favor) which conservatives have been railing against so far. It's totally possible that abortion is on the chopping block. Probably gay rights will get shot down some more over the years. We should also see some more religion in schools. It could be called Christian totalitarianism in red states, I suppose.

[Stengapsept]

I think it all started when bible belt dixiecrats started leaving the democratic party for the republicans during the fights over the civil rights and voting rights acts of the sixties. The result of that migration was made clear when Reagan swept the south in 1980. In the years since then, republican leaders have continued his policy of pandering to the social reactionaries.
Up until w was elected, this mostly consisted of giving lip service since the pro business/wealthiest 2% core of the party had traditionally supported individual freedoms as long as they didn't adversely affect profit or cause the imposition of taxes. By the time w was elected, however, the radicals in the fundamentalist movement had integrated themselves far enough into the party to be in a position to demand their due.
The other factor in this equation is the almost universal support for abortion choice on the democratic side. An increasing number of voters who would otherwise never vote for a republican or side with the jerry falwells and pat robertsons of the world are doing so to fight abortion.

[huedaanydrax]

When exactly did the right wing goal lose sight of a "small federal government" and replace that idea with a Christian Theocracy? Do they not realize that this is going to cause a huge rift between Americans and cause more domestic unrest than we've seen since the great depression? Why do people overlook the Establishment Clause? Do they think Jesus would want them to force their faith and values on people through political might? Do they not realize that Jesus was martyred because of the political power of a predominant religion?

The voters apparently prefer big government.

Rightwing apparently prefers being in government (and lose the ideology) than sitting outside with their ideology intact. Seems logical enough. Ideology is only for motivating the supporters/donors. It is not for running governments.

The only difference now seems to be the effectiveness of the media. Twenty years ago, the media would have reported that the present government was steadfast in their conservativism (and ignored the facts to the contrary). Living in your small town, you probably wouldn't have known otherwise.

[nicegirlflor]

The voters know who will protect America and who will not.
The voters also for the most part are Christian and have finally woke up to the fact that there is a war on values in America and they had better fall in and vote according to the Bible instead of Das Kapital.
Americans are returning to their root values, their root beliefs, their root morality and are discarding the vile and evil teachings of the left.
Private property and human lives are sacred and its for their protection that government exists and none other.
Private property means people are not slaves and have rights.
Yeah, it's a new dawn and it's grand.
It's also inevitable, since those that work, that struggle, that climb and strive will also win over the lazy asses depending on their government.
That is a given.

[klnbgqr]

I think it all started when bible belt dixiecrats started leaving the democratic party for the republicans during the fights over the civil rights and voting rights acts of the sixties. The result of that migration was made clear when Reagan swept the south in 1980.

Do you have any suggested reading or source for this?

[new-nickname-zanovo]

A good starting point is to google, 'Alabama Review: Republicans In The South'.

Any course in Southern politics (post-Civil War) is also a good source of info.

[FalHaitle]

While those in the South did switch to the Republican Party during the sixties, there was a lot going on at the time. It was a time when morals were starting to erode as evidenced by the sex and drugs that we didn't see much of in the 50's. It was a time of peaceniks spitting on soldiers and calling them babykillers. Massive war protests were underway. There were race riots and those protesting intergration. Prayer in school was challenged. Then came the early 70's with Roe v. Wade which the Southern Democrats that were left hated.
One doesn't have to be a Christian nor religious to have morals and there are plenty of people like that in the Republican party. Many are the so-called Dixiecrats now turned Republican and they did so because they didn't like the things that were happening to America. They respected soldiers, they didn't believe in "free love" and drugs, they had no problem with prayer even if they didn't believe, etc. Now, if you want to attribute those morals to Christians only, then what does that say about the party that Dixiecrats left?

[urbalatte]

Only 1 real important thing was going on from the Southern perspective, Mrs M.:

Desegregation.

[MzTT]

Only 1 real important thing was going on from the Southern perspective, Mrs M.:

Desegregation.

Well, I guess my southern relatives didn't realize that the other things weren't important.

[Nemerov]

If yours were like most (mine included) they bundeled up all the 'peaceniks', hippies, and freedom riders into one term:

'Niggerlover'.

Apologies to anyone that term offended, including minha beleza esposa.

[freediscountplanrrxip]

If yours were like most (mine included) they bundeled up all the 'peaceniks', hippies, and freedom riders into one term:

'Niggerlover'.

Apologies to anyone that term offended, including minha beleza esposa.

Nope, mine weren't like that. Peaceniks and hippies were disliked because of their "make love, not war" philosophy. (Most of the men in my family were soldiers at one time or another.)
As for freedom riders, it wasn't the desegregation that they disliked as much as it was the forced intergration (bussing).

[hotsaucemidl]

While those in the South did switch to the Republican Party during the sixties, there was a lot going on at the time. It was a time when morals were starting to erode as evidenced by the sex and drugs that we didn't see much of in the 50's. It was a time of peaceniks spitting on soldiers and calling them babykillers. Massive war protests were underway. There were race riots and those protesting intergration. Prayer in school was challenged. Then came the early 70's with Roe v. Wade which the Southern Democrats that were left hated.
One doesn't have to be a Christian nor religious to have morals and there are plenty of people like that in the Republican party. Many are the so-called Dixiecrats now turned Republican and they did so because they didn't like the things that were happening to America. They respected soldiers, they didn't believe in "free love" and drugs, they had no problem with prayer even if they didn't believe, etc. Now, if you want to attribute those morals to Christians only, then what does that say about the party that Dixiecrats left?

Worth repeating. Excellent post.

[itititit]

Mrs M,

Pardon me if I do not believe you, as your remark about the 'forced intergration' (V bussing) is a dead give away for any Southerner of your and my generation.

Although as the most militaristic of all regions, I do understand the mentality that extolls the virtue of war over peace.

[Quiniacab]

The voters apparently prefer big government.

Rightwing apparently prefers being in government (and lose the ideology) than sitting outside with their ideology intact. Seems logical enough. Ideology is only for motivating the supporters/donors. It is not for running governments.

What reason would one want all the headache, bitching, blame-shifting, and other retarded burdens that come with power, except because one strongly believes in an ideology of some kind?

This is the height of irrationality, not "logical enough."

[autolubitelone]

While those in the South did switch to the Republican Party during the sixties, there was a lot going on at the time. It was a time when morals were starting to erode as evidenced by the sex and drugs that we didn't see much of in the 50's. It was a time of peaceniks spitting on soldiers and calling them babykillers. Massive war protests were underway. There were race riots and those protesting intergration. Prayer in school was challenged. Then came the early 70's with Roe v. Wade which the Southern Democrats that were left hated.
One doesn't have to be a Christian nor religious to have morals and there are plenty of people like that in the Republican party. Many are the so-called Dixiecrats now turned Republican and they did so because they didn't like the things that were happening to America. They respected soldiers, they didn't believe in "free love" and drugs, they had no problem with prayer even if they didn't believe, etc. Now, if you want to attribute those morals to Christians only, then what does that say about the party that Dixiecrats left?

Since I personally know many "protesters" who not only respected soldiers (myself included) but were soldiers I can only say your perception of those years does not come close to mine. Drugs, of course, are a nonpartisan scourge and obviously you need to include alcohol (which even republicans and dixiecrats have alwayus liked) in that assessment.
Except for those two misrepresentations it sounds like you agree with me that the bible belt turned republican over race and abortion. You are correct though that I did not include government sponsored christianity in the equation. That is because at the time of the migration, the republican party did not stand for that. As I indicated in my previous post, that is a more recent development which, after years of bait and switch, has finally been delivered on by w.

[optormtix]

Do you have any suggested reading or source for this?

I really don't know of any book that advocates my position and I guess I've come to it through many readings. I'm not a professional historian or political scientist so I could be wrong.

I do think the theory makes sense though. After all, Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms were dixicrats who bolted the dems to become republicans and were massively popular and influential in the south all their lives. I'm also pretty sure that the only dem to do really well in the bible belt after the civil rights legislation was Jimmy Carter. Nixon did better than his opponents in the south, and since '80 it has been the republicans' most solid bloc.

[RsQhyZyR]

Since I personally know many "protesters" who not only respected soldiers (myself included) but were soldiers I can only say your perception of those years does not come close to mine. Drugs, of course, are a nonpartisan scourge and obviously you need to include alcohol (which even republicans and dixiecrats have alwayus liked) in that assessment.
Except for those two misrepresentations it sounds like you agree with me that the bible belt turned republican over race and abortion. You are correct though that I did not include government sponsored christianity in the equation. That is because at the time of the migration, the republican party did not stand for that. As I indicated in my previous post, that is a more recent development which, after years of bait and switch, has finally been delivered on by w.

I didn't know many protesters here in the South but my husband met a few. One was also introduced to my husband's fists after spitting on my husband. Thankfully though, the South has never been like the East and West Coasts, where the drugs of the sixties, "free love" and war protesters were most prominant.
Race and abortion were only part of the reason for the switch. You have to look at the overall picture.
Some people will always balk at a President who is religious. Remember how many people were worried about putting a Catholic in the White House? Now most folks believe that JFK was the best thing since sliced bread. Some didn't like Jimmy Carter because he was "too religious" when in the end, he was nothing more than a lame duck and religion didn't even come into play.