[Sopsneork]

*shakes head* no, no, no. What is this! Earlier, after the hurricane- business, Rove did something very strange. He failed to see the opportunity to leech into the human compassion for the victims in NO, and instead the administration managed to name the displaced and homeless "refugees". And after that fail to make the president seize a great opportunity to promote a conservative agenda and an appropriate fiscal policy for the rebuilding. Instead, he's photographed over the gulf, disconnected and removed, crying over the lost oil- refineries. And it never went well after that.

And now, what happens? After some noise about how the prewar- intel was misleading and that the president lied, they launch their counter- offensive... BY ADMITTING THEY WERE WRONG!!!! What the fuck are you doing, you monkey- turd- slinging asshat! Rove, you dissappoint me.

"Asterisks Dot White House's Iraq Argument".
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...111101832.html

Also note the Whitehouse response to this:
1. Robb- Silberman committee finds "No evidence of political pressure". (the "dead wrong" and "disastrously one- sided" - report that states: "Accordingly, while we
interviewed a host of current and former policymakers during the course of
our investigation, the purpose of those interviews was to learn about how the
Intelligence Community reached and communicated its judgments about
Iraq’s weapons programs—not to review how policymakers subsequently
used that information.").
http://www.wmd.gov/report/wmd_report.pdf , p. 24.
2. The british Butler inquiry find no evidence of any distorted or sexed- up intelligence.
3. The senate select committee did not find any evidence of attempts to influence analysists to change their intelligence.
4. Democrats are stupid.
5. So are you.

The point is, of course, that the Whitehouse is setting themselves up and will have to answer to just exactly how they used the intelligence available, since they made the intelligence assessments, and also just how the hell the CIA apparently managed to make consistent assessments confirming the Administration's assertions while turning out to be "dead wrong", without ever noting a single misgiving about it all that the president's people saw. And the public speeches, and so on... Was anything of that grounded in evidence? An obvious question that has been avoided by order during the last few reports.

And I can only conclude that Rove has mysteriously died in some way and someone else is in the hotseat. Someone with, oh, say, the political subtlety of a shotgun slug through a rack of teddy- bears.

Alas. Oh, dear, oh dear. My favorite presidency is having trouble with their hot- air balloon. I'm so terribly disappointed with them. And I'm soo crushed right now. Oh, woe is me. How terrible this is. How can they do this to me! Oh, the pain and sorrow is too much to bear! Mm? Oh, excuse me, the coffee is ready.

[9uWzBx4l]

I think Rove is worried that the real reason for the war will come out.
And the american people won't like the idea that the war was pursued as a campaign prop for the 2004 elections. So you can see why he might be a little distracted.

[Nigeopire]

I think Rove is worried that the real reason for the war will come out.
And the american people won't like the idea that the war was pursued as a campaign prop for the 2004 elections. So you can see why he might be a little distracted.

Mm. Perhaps he's worried that the democrats are going to take all the glory when the US finally regain their sanity.

Seriously, though. That there were no discussion ahead of the war, that the decision- making process was inexistent and so on - this is a hidden elephant so huge that when it finally starts to stretch it's legs, it's going to be completily immaterial whether or not Bush really did the right thing or not in Iraq or with whatever else he's pushed through. What they've done is simply not what democracy is, and as long as the american people don't lose their minds or become braindead again, the Whitehouse is not going to pull their way out of this one. They're simply going to end up as abusers of power (and inept ones as well on top of that). It strikes me as very odd, but what they're doing now is simply setting themselves up by highlighting how they argued their way into the war.

btw, these are pretty funny:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea.../20051113.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0051115-1.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0051114-1.html
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0051111-6.html

"Setting the Record Straight:...." rofl. These guys are incredible.

But the problem here is that as long as this turd- slinging is going on, the skilled people are going to be sidelined the instant there's any split opinions, either because they'll be keeping themselves well off actual legislative work, trying to avoid putting fuel on the pyre, or weight on their president's neck. Or otherwise because they're reduced to pure opposition- politicians with no plans on their own, happily spending their time torturing themselves over the horrible plans, if any, that the Whitehouse manage to produce... But meanwhile, things go badly for us.

[xquFzpNw]

When you tell the Big Lie, you have to keep telling it, and there are plenty of people who will believe you right to the end, they call those people "the base".

[Tjfyojlg]

You guys are missing the entire message here:

"The Iraq War wasn't my fault, it was the CIA that made me do it."

Nothing is ever this guy's fault, ever. Typical PLU brat.

[Zwnkkvle]

*shakes head* no, no, no. What is this! Earlier, after the hurricane- business, Rove did something very strange. He failed to see the opportunity to leech into the human compassion for the victims in NO, and instead the administration managed to name the displaced and homeless "refugees". And after that fail to make the president seize a great opportunity to promote a conservative agenda and an appropriate fiscal policy for the rebuilding. Instead, he's photographed over the gulf, disconnected and removed, crying over the lost oil- refineries. And it never went well after that.

And now, what happens? After some noise about how the prewar- intel was misleading and that the president lied, they launch their counter- offensive... BY ADMITTING THEY WERE WRONG!!!! What the fuck are you doing, you monkey- turd- slinging asshat! Rove, you dissappoint me.

Indeed. Rove appears to have lost it completely judging by the dancing of the marionette. Quite surprising. But then again, one must never underestimate Rove's commitment as an ideological warrior, not a true real politique spin doctor (like Carvell for example).

When the ideological shit hits the fan, I'd rather have a machiavellian than a ideologue as an advisor...

[Wetekemieluth]

Indeed. Rove appears to have lost it completely judging by the dancing of the marionette. Quite surprising. But then again, one must never underestimate Rove's commitment as an ideological warrior, not a true real politique spin doctor (like Carvell for example).

Sounds about right.. violent madmen with basically a good heart. Who's Carvell, btw?

"The Iraq War wasn't my fault, it was the CIA that made me do it."

Well, if you look at it from the point of view that the process was technically followed, the CIA is the problem. And it's a bit doubtful that the democrats, at least, are going to dig into the process, probably. Or.. look hard at the national security act. Or reform the defense department. lol.

When you tell the Big Lie, you have to keep telling it, and there are plenty of people who will believe you right to the end, they call those people "the base".

it sure seems like they've been learning from somewhere.

[thushioli]

Sounds about right.. violent madmen with basically a good heart. Who's Carvell, btw?

Carvell was Clinton's spin doctor (chief political/campaign advisor).

If you're emperor, that should be a given.

Not necessarily. I think a machiavellian spin doctor is way better than an ideologically partisan spin doctor for democratic politicians.

The reason is that when the ideological 'shit' hits the fan (as it is doing now), an ideologue spin doctor has only one tactic to suggest - attack the enemy (the best defense is understood as a good offense). A good machiavellian spin doctor has a wider bag of tricks to utilise if the situation calls for it.

That is to say, because Rove is an ideologue, the strategy choices are very limited. They must stay the course and attack anyone who thinks otherwise. That is the only strategy going on here. It has been constant from day one with respect to Iraq.

As you have noted, this 'strategy' has worked fairly well up until now. But the ideological shit is hitting the fan now - a good spin doctor might consider a different tactic... but not Rove. As it is, 'staying the course' and smearing the enemy (Democrats) leads down a dead-end street of defensive damage control. As soon as you are in damage control mode, the game is over. You've got to have the high ground to make this strategy work - making 'high ground' statements when standing on the 'low ground' just makes the President look silly.

Ergo, Rove is not a good spin doctor. And that I suppose is what is surprising to you (and to me as well).

it sure seems like they've been learning from somewhere.

Indeed. Fucking scary. Hermann Goering I believe is the origin of that line about 'repeating a big lie often enough'.

[Bxbhtjnr]

I think Rove is worried that the real reason for the war will come out.
And the american people won't like the idea that the war was pursued as a campaign prop for the 2004 elections. So you can see why he might be a little distracted.

The policy goal of invading Iraq was long established. Chaney, Rumsfeld, Pearle & Wolfie (amongst others) were pounding that policy from 1993 right through to 2001. The minute they got into power, that policy moved to the top of the list. 9/11 was taken as a 'godsend' opportunity to launch it.

The 2002 mid-terms and the 2004 election were thus a 'bonus' to this policy, not the driving force.

Without a doubt, the original and long standing goal was geo-strategic - which includes oil, Israel, Middle Eastern politics and US hegemony. The goal was to dump one 'renegade' US puppet and install a replacement under the guise of imposing 'democracy'. The plan turned out a mite bit messier than they all expected that that is why the ideological 'shit is hitting the fan' right now - the ideology was predicated upon Iraq just rolling over and playing dead. Unfortunately, no one told the Iraqis this...

[clitlyphype]

I liked Carvell better seems he could grin Rove looks like he's settling comfortably on a lap.

[sasaderesada]

Sounds about right.. violent madmen with basically a good heart. Who's Carvell, btw?

If you're emperor, that should be a given. See, this is what I don't get. They've been trying to salvage the political jihad lately by flailing out at the democrats. And it's still like they believe they have their backs covered. And, well, I'm certain that there's bits and pieces in for instance the National security act and in the constitution and so on that grants the president and the different officials the opportunity to approve just about anything at their leisure, more or less. And with the "vote for war" by Congress, that's basically everything taken care of. So they certainly are on the right side of the law, in a sense, which really leaves only any problems with keeping the lid on what they've actually done.. in the process, and how they've maintained this "legality". Meaning that they need the ideological battle, within the government and outside, to stun the debate with the binary choices they've been getting by on. Then they can simply point to that "the decisions were made", and all is well.. I mean, a pretty good strategy.

Except, it's ignoring how good or bad the actual decisions are. They could sustain the political jihad by simply continuing to do horrible decisions, for instance - from this perspective it won't matter. But.. they're doing nothing but damage control in a way they can't win. They don't need unquestioning loyalty to do that, for crying out loud. Makes no sense. I mean, if I was in their position, I'd be running out of countries to conquer by now.

Well, if you look at it from the point of view that the process was technically followed, the CIA is the problem. And it's a bit doubtful that the democrats, at least, are going to dig into the process, probably. Or.. look hard at the national security act. Or reform the defense department. lol.

it sure seems like they've been learning from somewhere.

The CIA's info and the State Dept's info was footnoted, no one read them.

At any rate, GW is responsible for not being smart enough to judge the quality of the material. Not everyone in the country thought it was a good idea to go to war on this stuff. It was his idea.