[Efonukmp]

Chassisman, I think he stated his proposed solution: end Social Security.

But although I would agree with that proposal of his, I don't think that would be sufficient, even though it would be a step in the right direction. I think we would also have to end the following, which are also currently occurring:

- free health care for illegal aliens, paid for by United States taxpayers

- free food stamps, paid for by United States taxpayers

- free education for children of illegal aliens, paid for by United States taxpayers


But dismantling the Social Security scam is certainly a noble goal.

[makemoneyonli]

Chassisman, I think he stated his proposed solution: end Social Security.

But although I would agree with that proposal of his, I don't think that would be sufficient, even though it would be a step in the right direction. I think we would also have to end the following, which are also currently occurring:

- free health care for illegal aliens, paid for by United States taxpayers

- free food stamps, paid for by United States taxpayers

- free education for children of illegal aliens, paid for by United States taxpayers


But dismantling the Social Security scam is certainly a noble goal.

Non no....I mean a solution. What he offered was just a poke at "statist imperia teat suckling children".

[movlabk]

Then feel free to amaze us with your wonderful solution.

By the look of the username, I'd speculate that Hitler's final solution wouldn't be too far off the mark... or forced sterilisations - same difference in reality.

The remark about "statist imperia teat suckling children" is particularly ironic given that the only what eugenics can come into being is through the operation of statist imperia teat suckling eugenics worshippers...

Unfortunatly, irony is always lost on fanatics. Alas.

[lrUyiva1]

Chassisman, I think he stated his proposed solution: end Social Security.

He did not. He spoke obliquely of eugenics.

But although I would agree with that proposal of his...

By your words you shall be known.

[teentodiefows]

Want to end the massive influx and migration of illegals? I have a simple solution, and I can just about bet using a hypothesis that even the so called conservatives will not like the idea as most of you are statist imperia teat suckling children.

End SS.

Exactly HOW will ending Social Security (SS) help? People don't collect it until they retire so how will that help?

Now, if you're talking about Supplemental Security Income (SSI) then I'll agree that it should be overhauled but still help the elderly and disabled.

If you're talking about Social Security Disablility (SSD), again, how would that help?

[horaAppagob]

I think we would also have to end the following, which are also currently occurring:

- free health care for illegal aliens, paid for by United States taxpayers

- free food stamps, paid for by United States taxpayers

- free education for children of illegal aliens, paid for by United States taxpayers

I always find myself preaching my solution to this problem, which I think is damn good, but everybody else ignores for some reason.

Immigration is good. A higher population allows our economy to become more specialized and grow, and quality of life gets better. Then what is the problem with illegal immigration? The fact that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, so while they support themselves in the economy they do not support themselves in the state infrastructure- as Native American says, they do not pay for the roads that they drive on, the schools they send their children to, the health care that they recieve, et cetera. California's schools aren't really that bad when you consider how many children are going to them with no parental tax support. Likewise, our freeways would be less crowded if everybody driving on them was paying for them, and on and on.

So, how do we make immigrants pay taxes? Make them citizens.

Why can't we make it like Ellis Island? Put a few checkpoints on the border, document everybody that comes over, butcher their last name, and voila. They support themselves in our infrastructure. They support themselves in our economy. Eventually they will mix in our society. Problem solved.

The argument that often comes up is that most illegals wont legalize themselves, that most illegals just come to America for social benefits. First of all, I wouldn't mind cancelling all social benefits anyways. But realistically the argument is bull shit for another reason; the average immigrant desires a life that is better for himself and his family. An immigrant by nature desires a new life; the average immigrant will take American citizenship happily. Of course there will be a few that don't, but that wont be any higher of a number than we have right now. And if we remove the hard-working, struggling for a new life illegals out of the equation, and are only left with the crappy "I'm here for welfare" immigrants, than we will give the INS and Border Patrol something smaller to deal with.

The other brain-dead argument that people often come up with is that the illegals will overwhelm our economy. First of all, they will supposedly do that whether they are citizens or not. Second of all, anybody who believes this has a weak grasp on capitalism. As Mad Michael, who is very knowledgeable if a bit misguided, has already stated, the more people in a free market the better. Of course there will be a few years of adjustment do to the inflow of new workers. But since we can't stop the new workers, and we need the new workers, and that we already have the new workers, what we need to do is give them citizenship.

The other equally brain-dead argument is that if we make US citizenship free, then the entire population of South and Central America will come to America. Now since everybody in today's world is totally unable to comprehend the idea of national expansion, this seems like a valid argument to many. However, when I look at a map, I see this massive area immediately to our south and it seems like it is rather desolate. There's some kind of crappy three-bared flag on it, but I don't think that would be a problem. Face reality people- Mexico is a third world country. Mexico has no economic capital in their economy or political capital in their government- Mexico lives in the vaccuum surrounding the US. As such is it our duty to annex them in some manner; not necessarily through bloody warfare, it could be through expansion of political power and we never even need to set more than a token force on their soil. But Mexico is incapable of fending for itself, and in order to survive the US must expand- it is in everybody's interest for the US to annex Mexico. That way the problems that are causing the illegal immigration in the first place will be nonexistent. As more and more people flee Mexico to the US, it becomes all the more obvious that the US must unite with Mexico. (Under our Constitution, of course.)

I could elaborate more on the expansion part of my philosophies if you want, but they are pretty much a minor aspect in my beliefs of how we should deal with the illegal immigration problems.

[Buildityrit]

I always find myself preaching my solution to this problem, which I think is damn good, but everybody else ignores for some reason.

A very interesting post. Perhaps your wisdom in the first half gets smothered by the reaction to the second? I'd recommend keeping the two arguments separate on that account!

Oddly enough, the very idea of expanding US citizenship does have a ring of Rome about it now doesn't it? ... hmm... I'm going to have to think that one through a bit more carefully before agreeing that it is a 'truly' good idea...

[megatrendsZ]

The Expansionist stuff was just a solution to the problem of massive immigration to America- if everybody comes to America, then bring America to everybody else.


The problem is that when you're a die-hard Expansionist like I am, annexation just needs to be slipped out every post...

[gunhijala]

As politicians and their respective parties duke it out on just about every issue imaginable, there's no beef here......letting 1.1 million illegals pour in annually is A-O-Fucking-K.
The conservatives love their cheap labor....more profit with less employer obligations. This is pretty straightforward and easy to understand, althought it's illegal and unethical.
The liberals, on the other hand seem to have formed a "humanitarian" take on it much like the plantation owners had in early America ( we have brought these nigras from the jungle to civilization ) What hypocricy.....they approve of a new underclass which technically makes them racists!

I would just point out that except for the aboriginals, we're ALL immigrants here! Even the Aboriginals are if one goes back far enough. Actually the whole population of the planet if you want to go back to the very beginning. This discussion always amuses me as it completely misses the big picture.

[muBXvWIC]

I always find myself preaching my solution to this problem, which I think is damn good, but everybody else ignores for some reason.

Immigration is good. A higher population allows our economy to become more specialized and grow, and quality of life gets better. Then what is the problem with illegal immigration? The fact that illegal immigrants don't pay taxes, so while they support themselves in the economy they do not support themselves in the state infrastructure- as Native American says, they do not pay for the roads that they drive on, the schools they send their children to, the health care that they recieve, et cetera. California's schools aren't really that bad when you consider how many children are going to them with no parental tax support. Likewise, our freeways would be less crowded if everybody driving on them was paying for them, and on and on.

So, how do we make immigrants pay taxes? Make them citizens.

Why can't we make it like Ellis Island? Put a few checkpoints on the border, document everybody that comes over, butcher their last name, and voila. They support themselves in our infrastructure. They support themselves in our economy. Eventually they will mix in our society. Problem solved.

The argument that often comes up is that most illegals wont legalize themselves, that most illegals just come to America for social benefits. First of all, I wouldn't mind cancelling all social benefits anyways. But realistically the argument is bull shit for another reason; the average immigrant desires a life that is better for himself and his family. An immigrant by nature desires a new life; the average immigrant will take American citizenship happily. Of course there will be a few that don't, but that wont be any higher of a number than we have right now. And if we remove the hard-working, struggling for a new life illegals out of the equation, and are only left with the crappy "I'm here for welfare" immigrants, than we will give the INS and Border Patrol something smaller to deal with.

The other brain-dead argument that people often come up with is that the illegals will overwhelm our economy. First of all, they will supposedly do that whether they are citizens or not. Second of all, anybody who believes this has a weak grasp on capitalism. As Mad Michael, who is very knowledgeable if a bit misguided, has already stated, the more people in a free market the better. Of course there will be a few years of adjustment do to the inflow of new workers. But since we can't stop the new workers, and we need the new workers, and that we already have the new workers, what we need to do is give them citizenship.

The other equally brain-dead argument is that if we make US citizenship free, then the entire population of South and Central America will come to America. Now since everybody in today's world is totally unable to comprehend the idea of national expansion, this seems like a valid argument to many. However, when I look at a map, I see this massive area immediately to our south and it seems like it is rather desolate. There's some kind of crappy three-bared flag on it, but I don't think that would be a problem. Face reality people- Mexico is a third world country. Mexico has no economic capital in their economy or political capital in their government- Mexico lives in the vaccuum surrounding the US. As such is it our duty to annex them in some manner; not necessarily through bloody warfare, it could be through expansion of political power and we never even need to set more than a token force on their soil. But Mexico is incapable of fending for itself, and in order to survive the US must expand- it is in everybody's interest for the US to annex Mexico. That way the problems that are causing the illegal immigration in the first place will be nonexistent. As more and more people flee Mexico to the US, it becomes all the more obvious that the US must unite with Mexico. (Under our Constitution, of course.)

I could elaborate more on the expansion part of my philosophies if you want, but they are pretty much a minor aspect in my beliefs of how we should deal with the illegal immigration problems.

We'll never clash on that one. Why do so many people fail to recognize that legal immigration is the only real solution. What's the key to leading a full life in America.....? It damn sure isn't being a second class citizen. The mournful ("they are just seeking out a better life") cries that we often hear are racist statements in themselves. If a person looks in the best interest of the immigrant, why should the immigrants lives here be a lesser existance?

America built itself of immigrants........masses who entered legally.......they paid their dues, most learned our language....they come here to be Americans !!
America should only open it's door to Mexico as freely as it does it's other borders. Would you want 1.1 million Sudanese as new guests each year?

[JessePex]

America should only open it's door to Mexico as freely as it does it's other borders. Would you want 1.1 million Sudanese as new guests each year?

Well, last I checked America didn't have a border with Sudan.

[outfinofulpv]

Well, last I checked America didn't have a border with Sudan.

Wait a minnit.....lemme check my map......

[Asianunta]

...What's the key to leading a full life in America.....? It damn sure isn't being a second class citizen.

Then why do you support forcing homosexuals to be second class citizens? Just curious. They are Americans too - seeking to live a full life in American (pursuing happiness, as it were).

[StitsVobsaith]

Then why do you support forcing homosexuals to be second class citizens? Just curious. They are Americans too - seeking to live a full life in American (pursuing happiness, as it were).

I OK with civil unions. MM, you just have to realize that I'm 50 and was raised in a Christian household. The latter probably being the lesser of my influences.......

[bp9QxekG]

Okay, so who opposes the idea to give trade Mexican citizenship for US citizenship at the border, and on what grounds?

I mean, there has to be some reason why not a single congressman has even mentioned some kind of similar idea, isn't there?

[Wmshyrga]

I OK with civil unions. MM, you just have to realize that I'm 50 and was raised in a Christian household. The latter probably being the lesser of my influences.......

My apologies for the digression.

Basic 'traditional conservativism' would appear to be your answer. I respect the right to personal prejudice. I do not respect the right to legislate it.

[LianneForbess]

Okay, so who opposes the idea to give trade Mexican citizenship for US citizenship at the border, and on what grounds?

I mean, there has to be some reason why not a single congressman has even mentioned some kind of similar idea, isn't there?

Although it is not my 'right' to oppose it, I'd oppose it in principle on the basis of pragmatism. To even suggest the idea (seriously) I should think might trigger another US Civil War on the issue of State's Rights and Succession and war is always an ugly business.

[feeshyLew]

Okay, so who opposes the idea to give trade Mexican citizenship for US citizenship at the border, and on what grounds?

I mean, there has to be some reason why not a single congressman has even mentioned some kind of similar idea, isn't there?

Although it's a no-brainer, our elected leaders FAIL to estimate how many Mexican immigrants our economy can bear in order to deter long term negative economic effects, and act in the best interest of the American public.

[avaincmolla]

It appears American liberals (a group I'm sometimes considered to belong to) ignore the effect of illegal immigration on wages. Increasing the number of workers in the American work force drives down wages. Increasing the supply of anything drives prices down. In this case the "supply" is of workers, and the "price" is American wages.

I can easily understand the Right's desire to import cheap labor and keep wages down. It's completely consistent with their pro-Corporate, anti-worker position. But the support of the liberal elite is more baffling. 5-10 million illegal workers added to the current supply of 150 million participating American workers puts downward pressure on wages. It hurts all working Americans. It forces them to accept lower wages, since there are more workers willing to work for less.

There are no "jobs Americans won't take." There are only employers who won't pay enough to hire Americans.

[hojutok]

As politicians and their respective parties duke it out on just about every issue imaginable, there's no beef here......letting 1.1 million illegals pour in annually is A-O-Fucking-K.
The conservatives love their cheap labor....more profit with less employer obligations. This is pretty straightforward and easy to understand, althought it's illegal and unethical.
The liberals, on the other hand seem to have formed a "humanitarian" take on it much like the plantation owners had in early America ( we have brought these nigras from the jungle to civilization ) What hypocricy.....they approve of a new underclass which technically makes them racists!

All right, Tex ...this isn't a black n' white issue. We're a country of immigrants remember? And there was certainly a mixture of legal and illegal immigrants in our past.

So YOU now know what's going to work? Brilliant, let's make YOU some sort of Immigration Czar!

The truth is that it's a quandary. My wife is an immigrant. She's a Norwegian. We met while she was here on a visitor's visa. We fell in love. She had to go home. I asked her back. She came back and had to stay beyond her visa illegally for quite some time to stay with me. We eventually married. She's now my wife and a legal resident alien.

BUT she was illegal for a long time and had to work "under-the-table" for a long while. She got her "green card" and eventual resident alien card and is one of the most reliable people her company has ever had.

What bugs me is the overblown "problem" this country has with immigration. Many conservatives think that all immigrants are immediate welfare recipients.

The truth is that immigrant families have a smaller percentage on welfare than homegrown American families.

The truth is that immigrant families are the backbone of America's constant ability to reinvent itself.

Controlling the immigration to our country may at times be prudent but limiting the immigration to our country is self-defeating ...we're cutting the bloodline that has made us what we are …just look at your DAMN last name …