[Adwetyren]

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs...73223440307669

Why are the neocons pushing to use military in disasters? Think about it. They want control of disasters using military. Why would they want that? Nothing that comes out of the neocons mouth is on a face-value basis. There is always another agenda.

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The weekend press had some members of the U.S. Army's elite 82nd Airborne saying that they had tortured Iraqi prisoners partly to obtain intelligence and partly to amuse themselves. Although I obviously do not think that to be a great approach to the Geneva Conventions Relative to the Treatment of Prisoners of War, it is also a clear indication of just what kind of work we ask our soldiers overseas to do: Kill to keep from being killed is not humanitarian work; training for the two functions is different.

It is also the case that if the U.S. military were to be given the work of FEMA and Homeland Security, that they would also, quite rightly, seek more money and personnel to carry out the newly assigned tasks. The Department of Defense already receives a percentage of the annual U.S. budget that is out of line with America's priorities. Wars and deployment of forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, Colombia, Japan, Korea, the Philippines, Germany, and many other countries require money. But is that how Americans want to spend our money overall?

The tragedy of Katrina clearly revealed that there are many fundamental societal needs that are not being met under the current division of funds provided for by our budget. Put aside the question of whether taxes should be higher to make it possible to pay for butter as well as guns.

The basic problem of giving the U.S. military more control is, however, even more fundamental. The Posse Comitatus Act, the one that keeps the federal government from using federal troops on the population, is 127 years old and is deeply rooted in the basic relationship between the U.S. central government and the states.

[bataovady]

Very true, here however is my take Titled on another site,


'Should the Us take control in natural catastrophies?' The president has suggested that perhaps it would be better for the Federal establishment to "TAKE CHARGE" in the event of a National Disaster. My own answer to that is a resounding No, No, No! We have an organization in this Country called The National Guard (in fact 50 of them) They are constitutionally charged with the protection of their home States. Obviously depending upon the size and scope of the problem, Cities counties or state should be in charge, FEMA, and other Agencies of the US Government should be involved Only in supportive roles with the military coming in only when absolutely necssary, and in a (repeat) "SUPPORTIVE" role to the National Guard We are already getting far to close to a Totalitarian State.

[GAGNAPPEAPH]

Why are the neocons pushing to use military in disasters? You misuse the word neocon, but who was screaming like stuck pigs that Bush didn't get Federal help into N.O. fast enough? Nothing FEMA or the National Guard did was good enough for the left wing. Bush suggested the military to give them a different option. Now it is bad? I guess he can't please some people no matter what he does.

[Vjwkvkoy]

You misuse the word neocon, but who was screaming like stuck pigs that Bush didn't get Federal help into N.O. fast enough? Nothing FEMA or the National Guard did was good enough for the left wing. Bush suggested the military to give them a different option. Now it is bad? I guess he can't please some people no matter what he does.

Please explain.

No one is saying that there isn't a system in place that can act prudently dealing with natural disasters. The boat is solid and secure, the captain just didn't know how to sail or find good sailors.

What you do is hire competent people to run the show. How does a manager of a pony show rise to the head of FEMA without any experience in the field?

So try to imagine the government being one big computer - the problem with the computer is painfully obvious - user error.

[vasyasvc]

Well, if you don't want this, don't hold the President responsible for local failures. This is in direct response to the firestorm of criticism of Pres. Bush precisely because he didn't take control.

[JEWELMARGY]

That's a very good point. If Bush is being blamed for not acting soon enough, then what choices does he have to fix what was thought to have gone wrong.

However, in my opinion, what Bush did wrong was not to delay in ordering in the military to help with Katrina. Rather, what Bush did wrong was take so long to address the actual problem (rather than staying on vacation, biking with Lance). He also could have coordinated - or instructed his staff to have coordinated - with local authorities more closely to determine needs.

Not everything the president does wrong should be fixed with increasing the military presence.

[hansen384cbh]

That's a very good point. If Bush is being blamed for not acting soon enough, then what choices does he have to fix what was thought to have gone wrong.

However, in my opinion, what Bush did wrong was not to delay in ordering in the military to help with Katrina. Rather, what Bush did wrong was take so long to address the actual problem (rather than staying on vacation, biking with Lance). He also could have coordinated - or instructed his staff to have coordinated - with local authorities more closely to determine needs.

Not everything the president does wrong should be fixed with increasing the military presence.

What Bush did wrong is use the US government as a jobs program for his campaign workers. He has appointed people who are loyal to him, but have no other qualifications for the job. This results in large amounts of shit hitting the fan when a situation that requires some level of competance pops up.
Harriet Miers is just the latest example, as Bill Maher said "At least when Clinton was tapping the woman down the hall, it was just sex".

[DP5Ups8o]

The only thing I blame Bush for when Katrina hit was that he hadn't appointed a competent person to head FEMA. After all, when disaster strikes, even the White House is supposed to take cues from FEMA, but Michael Brown didn't really know what to do. So Bush was vacationing, which is fine, except any competent FEMA director would have told the president with urgency that he better pay attention to what's happening.

I don't think the military should be used just because incompetent folks were hired in positions they weren't qualified for. The National Guard and many other agencies are equipped in disaster relief efforts, it's just this time, roughly 40% of the National Guard is fighting in a war when they ought to be at home. In the case of Katrina, had a more hands-on director been hired, that person would have been on top of everything, including many of the areas where a mayor or Governor might be forgetting or unaware. The help was there, and in many cases, the help was ready, it's just they didn't get the call until days later. Part of that is FEMA's job, and part of that is good communication between FEMA and the White House, which there wasn't. No military needed, just good planning.

[enasseneiff]

While FEMA was ineffective, the Mayor of New Orleans and the governor of Louisiana should be held accountable for the abject failure of the initial responses to Katrina! If I were a citizen of New Orleans I would be screaming for the Mayor's impeachment. The man is a complete ass. His prior experience is only as an "executive" of a cable company! He destroyed all the school busses out of complete idiocy or ignorance.

Both he and the governor failed to request federal assistance, which was required before the federal government could do anything, in anything like a timely manner. These people are both absolute failures!

[Doncarlito]

The thing about Bush wanting more federal/military control is a bit scary. They are talking about having a quarunteen by the military in the event of an avian flu outbreak. If someone in your neighborhood or town gets avian flu he wants to shut the area off using the military. No school, no shopping, no leaving your area.

This cannot happen in America. Sorry, it's just over the line. Don't you think so?

[SQiTmhuY]

Except the main problem in New Orleans was law and order. How is this Bush's responsibility?

[Indinehon]

The only thing I blame Bush for when Katrina hit was that he hadn't appointed a competent person to head FEMA. After all, when disaster strikes, even the White House is supposed to take cues from FEMA, but Michael Brown didn't really know what to do. So Bush was vacationing, which is fine, except any competent FEMA director would have told the president with urgency that he better pay attention to what's happening.

I don't think the military should be used just because incompetent folks were hired in positions they weren't qualified for. The National Guard and many other agencies are equipped in disaster relief efforts, it's just this time, roughly 40% of the National Guard is fighting in a war when they ought to be at home. In the case of Katrina, had a more hands-on director been hired, that person would have been on top of everything, including many of the areas where a mayor or Governor might be forgetting or unaware. The help was there, and in many cases, the help was ready, it's just they didn't get the call until days later. Part of that is FEMA's job, and part of that is good communication between FEMA and the White House, which there wasn't. No military needed, just good planning.

FEMA was not the primary problem in New Orleans. When are you Bush-bashers going to accept that the problem was on a local level? Gov. Blanco was as useless as the tits on a boar and Mayor Nagin was even worse. I know this for a fact because I'm from here. My local news is not as biased as what cable and national news is. I've not always been anti-Blanco and Nagin either. I held a great respect for Nagin until Katrina hit and I voted FOR Blanco.
As for sending the military into New Orleans, LOUISIANA National Guard did the policing and the NG from other areas did rescue, cleanup, etc. I've absolutely no problem with their presence and anyone that does has no true idea what was happening in the area.
I've dealt with many guardsmen from other areas and most have done a tour in Iraq, some getting back just two weeks prior to Katria. They were very helpful in search & rescue, clearing roads, even just directing traffic. The Seabees removed a tree that belonged to a neighbor from my backyard. I couldn't do it, nor could my husband, but the Seabees had it out in five minutes.
I know we use the word 'biased' a lot, but the media are very biased in that they are doing their level best to pin the blame of Katrina failures on Bush. Anyone interested in more truth about Katrina, please go here:
http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/foru...t=22164&page=3

[XinordiX]

Bush does of course deserve criticism for appointing an unqualified crony to FEMA.

However, there is no evidence that anything FEMA did led to more people dying. The problem was that failures in law and order kept supplies from getting in. That's a local issue.

[Rchzygnc]

FEMA was not the primary problem in New Orleans. When are you Bush-bashers going to accept that the problem was on a local level? Gov. Blanco was as useless as the tits on a boar and Mayor Nagin was even worse. I know this for a fact because I'm from here. My local news is not as biased as what cable and national news is. I've not always been anti-Blanco and Nagin either. I held a great respect for Nagin until Katrina hit and I voted FOR Blanco.
As for sending the military into New Orleans, LOUISIANA National Guard did the policing and the NG from other areas did rescue, cleanup, etc. I've absolutely no problem with their presence and anyone that does has no true idea what was happening in the area.
I've dealt with many guardsmen from other areas and most have done a tour in Iraq, some getting back just two weeks prior to Katria. They were very helpful in search & rescue, clearing roads, even just directing traffic. The Seabees removed a tree that belonged to a neighbor from my backyard. I couldn't do it, nor could my husband, but the Seabees had it out in five minutes.
I know we use the word 'biased' a lot, but the media are very biased in that they are doing their level best to pin the blame of Katrina failures on Bush. Anyone interested in more truth about Katrina, please go here:
http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/foru...t=22164&page=3

Umm, nice try, but......the locals weren't without blame. But, Bush served up a FAILED ED of a horse show to HEAD FEMA. It was colosal diaraha blast into the pants. If you are going to try to deny it, explain why Brown was sent packing. That, and the neocons raced to hooking up their buddies first and foremost instead of feeding and rescuing the victims. It's the same, old tired story with these neocons

[stadiaKab]

Umm, nice try, but......the locals weren't without blame. But, Bush served up a FAILED ED of a horse show to HEAD FEMA. It was colosal diaraha blast into the pants. If you are going to try to deny it, explain why Brown was sent packing. That, and the neocons raced to hooking up their buddies first and foremost instead of feeding and rescuing the victims. It's the same, old tired story with these neocons

Again, you're so busy with your Bush bashing and "neocon" crap that you fail to see the real problem. YOU CANNOT SEND FEMA WORKERS, VOLUNTEERS, ETC., INTO AN UNSTABLE AREA!!!!! New Orleans was in a state of mayhem after the flooding began. Crime was rampant with criminals shooting at police, military helicopters, etc., looters were everywhere and many of the police had fled New Orleans. To send FEMA or the Red Cross in would have been foolish because they would have been placed in danger, not only from rising water but also from criminals. Had Mayor Nagin called for a mandatory evac earlier, most of the citizens would have been somewhere else and NOT in danger of flooding. That's where the problem began.
Nagin should have had the foresight to supply the Superdome with food and water because even though it's not an official evacuation site, past experience shows that that's where the people end up. He failed to do so and this created hardships that could have been avoided.
The La. NG eventually secured New Orleans but there was still the element of rising waters. You can't send in your supplies if they're in danger and being destroyed. I do think that FEMA should have coordinated with the military to drop supplies at the Superdome by helicopter as soon as it was safe to do so and I'm still unclear as to why they didn't. But then again, they didn't bring supplies into my flooded city right away, either.
The flood waters didn't start receding until three days (Thurs.) after the storm had passed. On Friday, there were 50 trucks filled with food and water in New Orleans.
People in Louisiana are told to always have enough personal food and water to last at least three days during the hurricane season and they failed to do so. Had they done so, they wouldn't have missed a meal but rather than take personal responsibility, they would rather blame the government for not supplying them with essentials.
Another factor in getting emergency help into the area after the storm is the fact that bridges were destroyed, roads were blocked with fallen trees and electrical wires, etc. All of this has to be cleared before trucks can roll but for some reason, people think it gets cleared by little elfs or something. It doesn't. It takes a lot of manpower and the NG from other states played a major effort in this. In areas like mine, people cleared the roads themselves with chainsaws, trucks, tractors, etc. in many cases just because that's what we do. We don't sit around and wait for the government to rescue us, we help ourselves and also welcome any help from the outside. That's exactly why you haven't heard much about our area.
FEMA has been very slow in getting trailers to flood victims in Slidell and our Parish President Kevin Davis has threatened to get citizens with trucks to go pick the trailers up ourselves. He also recently threatened to sever all ties with FEMA if they didn't start moving.
As for the good ol' boy network, I'm use to it. That's been the way of Louisiana politics for decades, however, it really hasn't been bad during this disaster, I'm happy to say.

[Katoabralia]

Where did you get that Idea?? I think that was a very lessor problem. The people didn't have food, water, medicines, or other forms of help. Law enforcement had no part in that, nor could they.

[PhilipBartew]

Sorry, my BAD, my last post was to ADAHER Post 11