Spanish Revolution. Puerta del Sol Square, Madrid. - Page 3 - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**dubGucKcolo** · 05-24-2011, 02:58 PM

Their anger toward established parties has been fueled by the debt crisis and the surge in joblessness, Understandable

but their grievances also include a call for a cut in military spending, OK.

the closing of nuclear power plants A little harder to do, but understandable.

and the end of some laws, like recent legislation aimed at punishing digital piracy. What??!? lol! OMG! I know that people do not like this, but, at least the way it is phrased here, objecting to punishments for stealing?

"I want to be able to download the latest R-Kelly single WITHOUT having to pay a fine because I did not pay for it!!!!"

Hmmm......

**bahrains27** · 05-24-2011, 04:43 PM

The left-wing groups in Spain are largely supported with money from actors, music singers, film directors ... so on. The support of so-called "artists" to the group of "the angry-los indignados" has a price to be paid in their claims.

Copyright in Spain are managed by a society called SGAE (Sociedad General de Autores y Editores), which many believe is the clearest example of "mafia" in Spain today. It is not uncommon for inspectors to creep into a wedding at a restaurant and report the couple to have music for dancing and not paying royalties to their society (SGAE). A barber in Seville was closed a few months ago because he claimed to have a battery powered radio in the saloon to listen music while working for the past 20 years: SGAE's inspectors put a financial penalty of such amount that he could not pay and went out of business. SGAE managed to collect royalties from any taxi driver in Madrid to have radios, CD or DVD-systems on cars, bringing the many taxi drivers have been removed and replaced by newspapers provided to passengers along the route.

http://www.sgae.es/

In the other hand, maybe your post is a sort of hypocrisy.... because USA Government added to Spain in the "301 Special" Report in 2008...

http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-o...ial-301-report

SPAIN
Spain will be added to the Watch List in 2008. The United States is concerned by the Spanish
government’s inadequate efforts to address the growing problem of Internet piracy, described by
U.S. copyright industries as one of the worst in Europe. There is also a widespread
misperception in Spain that peer-to-peer file sharing is legal. While Spanish law enforcement
authorities have taken some positive measures against pirate Internet websites, prosecutors have
failed to pursue IPR cases, judges have failed to impose deterrent-level sentences against IPR
infringers, and right holders do not have access to important legal tools needed to bring
meaningful civil infringement suits. The United States will continue to work closely with Spain
to address these IPR enforcement issues during the next year.

**pBiRXp8u** · 05-24-2011, 04:48 PM

Looks like The Addams Family

The Addams Family & Mr.Bean in the White House... hahaha

**Nikitka** · 05-24-2011, 05:38 PM

In the other hand, maybe your post is a sort of hypocrisy.... because USA Government added to Spain in the "301 Special" Report in 2008... Look up the definition of Hypocracy.

1. I am not the US government.
2. Piracy is, as we define it, actually taking music and keeping a copy w/o paying for it.
3. The article I referred to in my quote does not describe the various permutations of abuse that might be vested on individuals for what they define as crimes under a similar set of legal statutes.
4. How is it hypocritical for the US to add Spain to the list of people that have a piracy problem, and laugh at the quote that people are complaining about the "piracy" laws being too strict? By the definition of Piracy as most in the industry sees it, if Spain has a bunch of websites, servers or other venues to distribute music w/o charging, then that is piracy and has little to do with fair use (such as radio broadcasts).

I think we have a problem with somantics here.....

**UrUROFlS** · 05-25-2011, 02:25 AM

The left-wing groups in Spain are largely supported with money from actors, music singers, film directors ... so on. The support of so-called "artists" to the group of "the angry-los indignados" has a price to be paid in their claims.

Pedro Almodovar and Penelope Cruz are the Spain's answer to the Perons?

**10traistintarry** · 05-25-2011, 06:27 AM

It's not easy translate ideologies between Spanish and American model.

If you ask me what my ideology in the United States, I'd vote to the Democrats, but if you tell me what my ideology in Spain, then I'd vote to the Popular Party (moderate right wing). In Spain always win the political party that dominates the moderate voters (moderate left wing and moderate right wing).

The radical right wing are a minority today. Why ? Because radicals are include in the nationalist politic parties of Catalonia and Basque Country (CiU and PNV ). The radical right wing was finished in Spain when General Franco died. Franco's regime nostalgics are old people, therefore very little social and politically dangerous. Are groups of people who need a leader to symbolizing the traditional values of Spain and this problem is solved with King Juan Carlos I. Our present King was appointed by Franco for when he died. Nobody ever voted that Spain was a republic or a monarchy in 1978, simply it was assumed by all because it was decided for Franco. What's ideology of King Juan Carlos I? Everybody know that King Juan Carlos is on moderate right wing and Sophia Queen is on traditional right wing (conservative).

Also today in Spain there are radical nationalist left wing politic parties as Bildu, that support the ideas of ETA terrorist group, or ERC in Catalonia or BNG in Galizia Community.

Popular Party includes inside itself different type of voters: moderate right wing (demochristians and liberals), the tradicional right wing or conservatives (bourgeoisie and businessmen) and radical right wing (nostalgic Franco Regimen).

In the other hand, the left wing includes inside itself: the socialists (PSOE), communists (IU) and radicals (anarchists and others). Socialist and Communist are the same today, there isn't differences, maybe the only one is because today Communist Party is more closer of modern ideas of Ecology in Europe than Socialist Party. Spanish communists are very anarchist and they support models of street fight similar to the Spanish Revolution.

If you ask me what is for me the ideology of "los indignados" group camped in the streets of Madrid, the answer is only one: anarchist/communist. They've requested to everyone for no vote to Popular Party (PP) and socialists (PSOE).

To explain the model in only 2 lines: in Spain there are 2 major political parties but majority group of voters are in the geometric center. The important thing is to dominate the center, not right wing or left wing. The problem is that when a society progresses and becomes more rich, then it is more conservative. That is the problem for left parties in Spain, because many times they are outside on the match.

What is the difference between moderate left and moderate right? For me is on religious belief sometimes. If a person is Catholic, like me, then stood as a Demochristian and opts for a moderate right wing option in Spain (Popular Party).

For example, the Gay Marriage Act. I respect the law because it is good and right. Homosexuals are normal people and I have many friends who are and I respect them and their sexual option. For me the only objection to the law is semantics. I do not like the word "marriage" because it is a religious sacrament. I'd prefer to be called the "legal unions." The rest of the law seems to me perfect, even the possibility that homosexuals can adopt children under 18 years.

The problem of the Socialists in Spain, as Spanish society is becoming more modern and conservative, to get more votes they have to capture between the radical left wing (communists, anarchists, ecologists and antisystem-anarchists). How? The only option is to pass laws utopian and radicals. Problem: then they lose votes on left moderate wing. When they lose the votes of the moderate left wing then they lose the elections. In addition, camped on the streets (los indignados) are communists, anarchists and antisystems and they do not want to vote because they don't want to support the Socialist Party after mismanagement in recent years. That is why the People's Party (right wing) has 2 million more votes than the Socialists in the last election: they lost the votes of the moderate left and the radical left did not vote.

For example, the Socialists in recent years have advocated closing the nuclear power plants and fill the country with wind turbines because they said it is a green energy, clean and sustainable. True, but now the electric bill in Spain is 4 times more expensive than in France, England or Germany. This economic factor means that companies are not competitive and have to close and go to other European countries to open their factories. It was a wrong policy decision and it has generated a lot of unemployment in Spain. This law likes the radical left but for moderate left wing is a mistake and now they prefer support to Popular Party.

Who's who?

1. Penelope Cruz: left moderate (Socialist Party)
2. Pedro Almodovar: socialist (Socialist Party).
3. Javier Bardem: communist (Communist Party)
4. Julio Iglesias: traditional right - conservative (Popular Party)
5. Pau Gasol: Catalonian nationalist on the right wing (CiU Party)
6. Rafa Nadal: moderate right (Popular Party)
7. Fernando Alonso: moderate left (Socialist Party)
8. Santiago Calatrava: moderate right (Popular Party)
9. Ricardo Bofill: Catalonian nationalist on the right wing (CiU)
10. Eduardo Chillida: Basque nationalist on the right wing (PNV)

**Ebjjrxrd** · 05-25-2011, 02:40 PM

The end of peace and reflection actions in Spain by "los indignados". They have announced new politic actions more agressive and radical during next days in Spain. The protesters left their street-camp on Murcia city for a few hours yesterday. They've assaulted 7RM Tv Channel Headquarter in Murcia. Maybe they're now on the wrong way...

**Prosocorneliay** · 05-26-2011, 01:59 AM

Javier Bardem: communist (Communist Party)

^ He could be a Nazi and it's fine with me...

**kictainiSot** · 05-26-2011, 04:25 AM

Javier Bardem: communist (Communist Party)

^ He could be a Nazi and it's fine with me...

Javier Bardem is anti-american and pro-Castrista.
Americans don't know what he (and his family...) said in the past years about USA in Spain...

It's wonderful to see him in Hollywood... hahaha

He's a great actor !... hahaha

a communist&anti-american working in Hollywood !

His mother, Pilar Bardem, is one of the most famous supporter of PCE-IU (Communist Party) in Spain, sister of Spanish film-director Juan Antonio Bardem (historic membership of PCE-Spanish Communist Party) and defender in Spain of stalinist and soviet model during General Franco Regimen. Juan Antonio Bardem (Javier Bardem's uncle) and Pilar Bardem (Javier Bardem's mother) were on prison long time during Franco Regimen.

Forever his mother, Pilar Bardem, like to show off in Spain that they are Communists, not Socialists !

Many times Javier Bardem try to hide his communist past in Spain, because he prefer to look for a good bussines in Hollywood. Everybody remember in Spain in 2003 as active member on street demonstration, directed by Communist Party, against USA military intervention on Irak. During protests, american flag used to finish on fire while protesters shouted " Americans baby killers", "USA Imperialism", "Cuba Libre !",... so on

Manifesto supporting to IU Party (Communists) for Spanish National Elections on 2004 signed by Javier Bardem and his mother Pilar Bardem in the official website of Spanish Communist Party (Izquierda Unida Party)

http://www.iucadiz.org/iufederal/mod...rticle&sid=848

Pilar Bardem interviewed by Lasexta Tv Channel talks about her Communist ideology....

---------------------------------------
^^^ Fabri, mio caro amico...

Una piccola collezione dello spagnolo e la politica...
IU (Izquierda Unida)------------------------------ Communist Party
PSOE (Partido Socialista Obrero Español)---------- Socialist Party
PP (Partido Popular)------------------------------ Conservative Party

**deackatera** · 05-26-2011, 08:08 AM

I take it you think that the current Spanish Communist Party is evil incarnate?

Perhaps you'd feel different if the good Generalisimo had put your sweet arse in jail.

05-24-2011, 02:58 PM	#41
dubGucKcolo Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 503 Senior Member	Their anger toward established parties has been fueled by the debt crisis and the surge in joblessness, Understandable but their grievances also include a call for a cut in military spending, OK. the closing of nuclear power plants A little harder to do, but understandable. and the end of some laws, like recent legislation aimed at punishing digital piracy. What??!? lol! OMG! I know that people do not like this, but, at least the way it is phrased here, objecting to punishments for stealing? "I want to be able to download the latest R-Kelly single WITHOUT having to pay a fine because I did not pay for it!!!!" Hmmm...... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2011, 04:43 PM	#42
bahrains27 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 379 Senior Member	The left-wing groups in Spain are largely supported with money from actors, music singers, film directors ... so on. The support of so-called "artists" to the group of "the angry-los indignados" has a price to be paid in their claims. Copyright in Spain are managed by a society called SGAE (Sociedad General de Autores y Editores), which many believe is the clearest example of "mafia" in Spain today. It is not uncommon for inspectors to creep into a wedding at a restaurant and report the couple to have music for dancing and not paying royalties to their society (SGAE). A barber in Seville was closed a few months ago because he claimed to have a battery powered radio in the saloon to listen music while working for the past 20 years: SGAE's inspectors put a financial penalty of such amount that he could not pay and went out of business. SGAE managed to collect royalties from any taxi driver in Madrid to have radios, CD or DVD-systems on cars, bringing the many taxi drivers have been removed and replaced by newspapers provided to passengers along the route. http://www.sgae.es/ In the other hand, maybe your post is a sort of hypocrisy.... because USA Government added to Spain in the "301 Special" Report in 2008... http://www.ustr.gov/about-us/press-o...ial-301-report SPAIN Spain will be added to the Watch List in 2008. The United States is concerned by the Spanish government’s inadequate efforts to address the growing problem of Internet piracy, described by U.S. copyright industries as one of the worst in Europe. There is also a widespread misperception in Spain that peer-to-peer file sharing is legal. While Spanish law enforcement authorities have taken some positive measures against pirate Internet websites, prosecutors have failed to pursue IPR cases, judges have failed to impose deterrent-level sentences against IPR infringers, and right holders do not have access to important legal tools needed to bring meaningful civil infringement suits. The United States will continue to work closely with Spain to address these IPR enforcement issues during the next year. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2011, 04:48 PM	#43
pBiRXp8u Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 447 Senior Member	Looks like The Addams Family The Addams Family & Mr.Bean in the White House... hahaha Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2011, 05:38 PM	#44
Nikitka Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 468 Senior Member	In the other hand, maybe your post is a sort of hypocrisy.... because USA Government added to Spain in the "301 Special" Report in 2008... Look up the definition of Hypocracy. 1. I am not the US government. 2. Piracy is, as we define it, actually taking music and keeping a copy w/o paying for it. 3. The article I referred to in my quote does not describe the various permutations of abuse that might be vested on individuals for what they define as crimes under a similar set of legal statutes. 4. How is it hypocritical for the US to add Spain to the list of people that have a piracy problem, and laugh at the quote that people are complaining about the "piracy" laws being too strict? By the definition of Piracy as most in the industry sees it, if Spain has a bunch of websites, servers or other venues to distribute music w/o charging, then that is piracy and has little to do with fair use (such as radio broadcasts). I think we have a problem with somantics here..... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-25-2011, 02:25 AM	#45
UrUROFlS Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 466 Senior Member	The left-wing groups in Spain are largely supported with money from actors, music singers, film directors ... so on. The support of so-called "artists" to the group of "the angry-los indignados" has a price to be paid in their claims. Pedro Almodovar and Penelope Cruz are the Spain's answer to the Perons? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-25-2011, 06:27 AM	#46
10traistintarry Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 385 Senior Member	It's not easy translate ideologies between Spanish and American model. If you ask me what my ideology in the United States, I'd vote to the Democrats, but if you tell me what my ideology in Spain, then I'd vote to the Popular Party (moderate right wing). In Spain always win the political party that dominates the moderate voters (moderate left wing and moderate right wing). The radical right wing are a minority today. Why ? Because radicals are include in the nationalist politic parties of Catalonia and Basque Country (CiU and PNV ). The radical right wing was finished in Spain when General Franco died. Franco's regime nostalgics are old people, therefore very little social and politically dangerous. Are groups of people who need a leader to symbolizing the traditional values of Spain and this problem is solved with King Juan Carlos I. Our present King was appointed by Franco for when he died. Nobody ever voted that Spain was a republic or a monarchy in 1978, simply it was assumed by all because it was decided for Franco. What's ideology of King Juan Carlos I? Everybody know that King Juan Carlos is on moderate right wing and Sophia Queen is on traditional right wing (conservative). Also today in Spain there are radical nationalist left wing politic parties as Bildu, that support the ideas of ETA terrorist group, or ERC in Catalonia or BNG in Galizia Community. Popular Party includes inside itself different type of voters: moderate right wing (demochristians and liberals), the tradicional right wing or conservatives (bourgeoisie and businessmen) and radical right wing (nostalgic Franco Regimen). In the other hand, the left wing includes inside itself: the socialists (PSOE), communists (IU) and radicals (anarchists and others). Socialist and Communist are the same today, there isn't differences, maybe the only one is because today Communist Party is more closer of modern ideas of Ecology in Europe than Socialist Party. Spanish communists are very anarchist and they support models of street fight similar to the Spanish Revolution. If you ask me what is for me the ideology of "los indignados" group camped in the streets of Madrid, the answer is only one: anarchist/communist. They've requested to everyone for no vote to Popular Party (PP) and socialists (PSOE). To explain the model in only 2 lines: in Spain there are 2 major political parties but majority group of voters are in the geometric center. The important thing is to dominate the center, not right wing or left wing. The problem is that when a society progresses and becomes more rich, then it is more conservative. That is the problem for left parties in Spain, because many times they are outside on the match. What is the difference between moderate left and moderate right? For me is on religious belief sometimes. If a person is Catholic, like me, then stood as a Demochristian and opts for a moderate right wing option in Spain (Popular Party). For example, the Gay Marriage Act. I respect the law because it is good and right. Homosexuals are normal people and I have many friends who are and I respect them and their sexual option. For me the only objection to the law is semantics. I do not like the word "marriage" because it is a religious sacrament. I'd prefer to be called the "legal unions." The rest of the law seems to me perfect, even the possibility that homosexuals can adopt children under 18 years. The problem of the Socialists in Spain, as Spanish society is becoming more modern and conservative, to get more votes they have to capture between the radical left wing (communists, anarchists, ecologists and antisystem-anarchists). How? The only option is to pass laws utopian and radicals. Problem: then they lose votes on left moderate wing. When they lose the votes of the moderate left wing then they lose the elections. In addition, camped on the streets (los indignados) are communists, anarchists and antisystems and they do not want to vote because they don't want to support the Socialist Party after mismanagement in recent years. That is why the People's Party (right wing) has 2 million more votes than the Socialists in the last election: they lost the votes of the moderate left and the radical left did not vote. For example, the Socialists in recent years have advocated closing the nuclear power plants and fill the country with wind turbines because they said it is a green energy, clean and sustainable. True, but now the electric bill in Spain is 4 times more expensive than in France, England or Germany. This economic factor means that companies are not competitive and have to close and go to other European countries to open their factories. It was a wrong policy decision and it has generated a lot of unemployment in Spain. This law likes the radical left but for moderate left wing is a mistake and now they prefer support to Popular Party. Who's who? 1. Penelope Cruz: left moderate (Socialist Party) 2. Pedro Almodovar: socialist (Socialist Party). 3. Javier Bardem: communist (Communist Party) 4. Julio Iglesias: traditional right - conservative (Popular Party) 5. Pau Gasol: Catalonian nationalist on the right wing (CiU Party) 6. Rafa Nadal: moderate right (Popular Party) 7. Fernando Alonso: moderate left (Socialist Party) 8. Santiago Calatrava: moderate right (Popular Party) 9. Ricardo Bofill: Catalonian nationalist on the right wing (CiU) 10. Eduardo Chillida: Basque nationalist on the right wing (PNV) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-25-2011, 02:40 PM	#47
Ebjjrxrd Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 511 Senior Member	The end of peace and reflection actions in Spain by "los indignados". They have announced new politic actions more agressive and radical during next days in Spain. The protesters left their street-camp on Murcia city for a few hours yesterday. They've assaulted 7RM Tv Channel Headquarter in Murcia. Maybe they're now on the wrong way... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-26-2011, 01:59 AM	#48
Prosocorneliay Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 484 Senior Member	Javier Bardem: communist (Communist Party) ^ He could be a Nazi and it's fine with me... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-26-2011, 04:25 AM	#49
kictainiSot Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 536 Senior Member	Javier Bardem: communist (Communist Party) ^ He could be a Nazi and it's fine with me... Javier Bardem is anti-american and pro-Castrista. Americans don't know what he (and his family...) said in the past years about USA in Spain... It's wonderful to see him in Hollywood... hahaha He's a great actor !... hahaha a communist&anti-american working in Hollywood ! His mother, Pilar Bardem, is one of the most famous supporter of PCE-IU (Communist Party) in Spain, sister of Spanish film-director Juan Antonio Bardem (historic membership of PCE-Spanish Communist Party) and defender in Spain of stalinist and soviet model during General Franco Regimen. Juan Antonio Bardem (Javier Bardem's uncle) and Pilar Bardem (Javier Bardem's mother) were on prison long time during Franco Regimen. Forever his mother, Pilar Bardem, like to show off in Spain that they are Communists, not Socialists ! Many times Javier Bardem try to hide his communist past in Spain, because he prefer to look for a good bussines in Hollywood. Everybody remember in Spain in 2003 as active member on street demonstration, directed by Communist Party, against USA military intervention on Irak. During protests, american flag used to finish on fire while protesters shouted " Americans baby killers", "USA Imperialism", "Cuba Libre !",... so on Manifesto supporting to IU Party (Communists) for Spanish National Elections on 2004 signed by Javier Bardem and his mother Pilar Bardem in the official website of Spanish Communist Party (Izquierda Unida Party) http://www.iucadiz.org/iufederal/mod...rticle&sid=848 Pilar Bardem interviewed by Lasexta Tv Channel talks about her Communist ideology.... --------------------------------------- ^^^ Fabri, mio caro amico... Una piccola collezione dello spagnolo e la politica... IU (Izquierda Unida)------------------------------ Communist Party PSOE (Partido Socialista Obrero Español)---------- Socialist Party PP (Partido Popular)------------------------------ Conservative Party Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-26-2011, 08:08 AM	#50
deackatera Join Date Dec 2005 Posts 511 Senior Member	I take it you think that the current Spanish Communist Party is evil incarnate? Perhaps you'd feel different if the good Generalisimo had put your sweet arse in jail. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

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