[U5pz6B71]

^In other words, a militarily threatening and aggressive Israel is the solution and not the problem.

[illerlytoindy]

If u hate this country so much go live somewhere better... Oh wait you won't because it's easy to blame everything on the US while you enjoy your life and freedoms this country provides ..

I would love to leave.

[Hedkffiz]

@ Jasonik it is no more or less a problem or solution than a militarily threatening Palestinian State is. Because Hamas functions as a duly elected, governing Palestinian entity, they represent the Palestinian people when they unilaterally launch missiles across the strip

[Pcodaygs]

Fact of the matter is, if it's going to happen there's nothing you can do. All you can do is pray that Israel will strike Iran before it can build a nuke.

As has been repeated ad nauseum, the worry isn't that Iran or Pakistan or North Korea (the countries) will use a nuclear weapon (they all have return addresses) but that the funneling of the tech and materials to a non-aligned group like al Queda that can't be deterred and can't be totally eliminated.

Striking these rogue groups as they develop their weapons is clearly essential, but there is a grave need (which has been completely ignored by Bush and the Likud party) to simultaneously lessen the animosity among the general muslim population so that they will refrain from joining ranks with and supporting the fanatics - maybe the non-radicals will even turn on the jihadists (as happened to alQueda in Iraq).

To continue to pre-emptively attack these countries, to never criticize Israel's heavy-handed tactics, pushes New York closer to the unthinkable.

[clubcughSheet]

@ Jasonik it is no more or less a problem or solution than a militarily threatening Palestinian State is. Because Hamas functions as a duly elected, governing Palestinian entity, they represent the Palestinian people when they unilaterally launch missiles across the strip

I think a fitting analogy would be this: Imagine in 1985 a bunch of black South African slum towns were given limited autonomy to elect their own governing bodies. The blacks still relied on the whites for jobs, utilities, etc., but they could now govern their shanties. The blacks, angry at having their land usurped and then treated as 3rd class people, launched rockets into white Johannesburg. The white South African government responded this attack by an "autonomous" entity by liberally carpet bombing the slum town centers where the rockets came from, killing black militants and the civilians that elected them.

Wouldn't the world condemn the white South African goverment? This is the situation right now in Gaza, but the U.S. leadership condemns the Palestinian while ignoring the much wider, longer-term wrongs perpetrated by Israel.

[NikitahDE]

That could very well be a strategic goal of Iran's, but they will use "defense/deterrence in the face of Israeli threats/aggression" as their official reason for going about it.

Iran will remain a threat to acquire nuclear weapons (or otherwise increase its military capability) as long as Iraq, Afghanistan, and now Pakistan are destabilized.

I'm no fan of the Iranian government and I believe it's essential that Iran does not get nuclear weapons. I also think there is way to go about it and that involves Israel striking a deal with Palestinians. That sounds reasonable, except who are the Palestinians they're to strike a deal with.

Israel will never enter into negotiations with Hamas. The Hamas charter calls for the destruction of Israel. No one anywhere is going to cut a deal with someone who wants them dead.

Besides the US, the EU has labelled Hamas a terrorist organization. The only two countries I can think of that support Hamas are Iran (officially recognizes and supplies) and Syria (sort of on the fence).

It's clear that Israek intends to wipe out Hamas completely, and there's not much complaint from the other Middle East countries, who would just as soon see the organization disappear.

That's the brutal, bitter reality.


If we were to suddenly suspend our annual $10 billion subsidy to the IDF, maybe Israel would consider such a deal, but the AIPAC guarantees that such subsidies will never be diminished - not in the forseeable future. Your numbers are way off. Israel gets about $2.5 billion in military aid, and Egypt is right behind them, getting about $1.5 billion.

So, you're worried about nuclear weapons, but are OK with cutting back conventional aid to an "aggressive country" that already has nuclear weapons, backing them into a position of dealing with an avowed mortal enemy...

Or?

[AdipexAdipex]

I think a fitting analogy would be this: Imagine in 1985 a bunch of black South African slum towns were given limited autonomy to elect their own governing bodies.

Are you equating the black people of South Africa to Hamas?

[97dYA9L3]

The prevailing geostrategery is to use Hammas as a wedge between Sunni and Shiite - Egypt and Iran. The poor Gazans are mere pawns.

[ftqwhbvxlcfop]

^I'm making a loose analogy of Black South Africans to the Palestinians in that they were once a proud, independent people that were removed from the most productive lands by a Western power, and quickly became a subservient class to an overtaking European population, forced into shanty towns, contained by barbed-wire walls, harassed by para-military forces, etc. Hamas would be equated to the elected black ruling bodies that used violence against the whites.

[AromeWahmaron]

@Randy I guess it depends on your perspective but I have difficulty equating Israel's moral compass with that of South Africa. I understand that the Palestinians have been dealt a raw deal, but , Hamas attacks and political agenda go right to the heart of Israel's sovereignty, and if you buy into the legitimacy of the Israeli State offers a much different calculus than a counter attack launched by a White Supremist government of South Africa (assuming you do NOT legitimize that state)i

But I get the point.

I guess my question is, what is the correct response to a state-sponsored attack on a sovereign nation? Assuming Hamas' actions are legitimized by the Palestinian people, just how does Israel go about protecting itself and discouraging the safe haven Palestinians provide Hamas? This is an entity that still calls for the destruction of Israel (and not to beat this to death) and has the support of the Palestinian people. To what extent are the Palestinian people responsible for Hamas attacks on innocent Israeli civilians? How does Israel get this to stop given that Hamas seems intent on wiping them off the earth?

I realize these are tactical questions and this thread is moving toward more overarching geopolitical considerations. I also agree with Jasonik, Hamas is a tool of Iran, and the Gazan's are mere pawns. But what exactly does Israel do to protect its citizens and sovereignty?