[bestworkother]

If they're trying to mandate HPV vaccines for girls, why aren't they including mandatory circumcisions for boys?

Quite the red herring.

It's actually one extreme of a logical thought progression, not at all a red herring.

Continuing with some news:


Merck to Halt Lobbying for Vaccine for Girls

By ANDREW POLLACK and STEPHANIE SAUL
The New York Times
February 21, 2007

Reacting to a furor from some parents, advocacy groups and public health experts, Merck said yesterday that it would stop lobbying state legislatures to require the use of its new cervical cancer vaccine.

The company said it made the decision after realizing that its lobbying campaign had fueled objections across the country that could undermine adoption of the vaccine.

At least 20 states are considering making its use mandatory for schoolgirls, and the governor of Texas, Rick Perry, has already done so by executive order. Part of the states’ rush to embrace the vaccine has been instigated by Merck efforts that began before federal regulators approved the product last year.

The vaccine is aimed at a sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer. Critics of the vaccine on moral and other grounds have used Merck’s perceived influence as a weapon in fighting the drug’s use. And some public health officials who favor the vaccine say the movement to make it mandatory has come too fast.

Merck acknowledged that opinion yesterday, saying it would stop lobbying specifically for state mandates, many of which would require girls to be vaccinated before they entered sixth grade.

Dr. Richard M. Haupt, executive director for medical affairs in Merck’s vaccine division, said the company had acted after hearing from public health officials and medical organizations that its campaign was counterproductive.

“They believe the timing for the school requirements is not right,” Dr. Haupt said, adding: “Our goal is to prevent cervical cancer. Our goal is to reach as many females as possible. Right now, school requirements and Merck’s involvement in that are being viewed as a distraction to that goal.”

But Dr. Haupt said that Merck would continue to provide health officials and legislators with education about the vaccine and would continue to lobby for more financing for vaccines in general.

He declined to say how much money or staff resources Merck had expended in its efforts to require use of the cervical cancer vaccine.
The vaccine, called Gardasil, acts against strains of the human papillomavirus that account for an estimated 70 percent of the cases of cervical cancer. The virus, known as HPV, is transmitted sexually, so experts say the vaccine is best given before girls become sexually active.
The vaccine, which costs about $400 for the three-shot regimen, was approved by the Food and Drug Administration in June. Later that month, a federal advisory panel recommended that females 11 to 26 years old be vaccinated, although panelists have said that recommendation was not equivalent to recommending mandatory inoculation.

But the speed with which legislatures have moved to require use of the vaccine before school entry has galvanized critics. Some say making a vaccine mandatory would pre-empt parental choice; others contend that protection from a sexually transmitted virus would encourage promiscuity.

These people were joined by some worried about the influence of pharmaceutical companies. Merck has been a financial backer of Women in Government, a national organization of legislators whose members have sponsored some of the state laws to make the vaccine mandatory.

Yesterday, Dr. Larry K. Pickering, executive secretary of the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, the federal panel that recommended the vaccine’s use in June, applauded Merck’s decision to stop lobbying.

“They finally are going to stop doing that, which all of us will be happy about,” he said. Dr. Pickering, who works at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said that while the vaccine was useful, more data on its safety, effectiveness and cost was needed.

He said the objections to the vaccine could undermine its use. “I think it has been somewhat counterproductive. Anything that takes away from the process of getting vaccine into people is deleterious to the whole process.”

Debbie Halvorson, the Democratic majority leader of the Illinois State Senate, who had a hysterectomy as a result of the human papillomavirus, is the sponsor of legislation to make the vaccine mandatory. She said she would continue to press for the bill, but that it was a good idea on Merck’s part to stop lobbying.

“If the people out there are thinking that Merck is doing all this, and pushing our buttons, they need to just step away,” she said. “The fact that I’m doing what I’m doing has nothing to do with Merck.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/21/business/21merck.html

[fedordzen]

There are some topics where I never introduce sexual innuendo, never flirt, never even joke around... and one of them is childrens' health care.

Yes you did.

You compared a shot to cutting off a piece of a boys penis. Not a fair comparison.

You are making this into an equal rights soapbox, but you are not using the right material. Like I said, requiring boys to get the vaccine as well would be a more balanced argument than jimmy slicing.

[wantedLOX]

It's actually one extreme of a logical thought progression, not at all a red herring.

It is. It is an exaggeration and a comparison of the exaggerated position to the original as if they were one and the same.

They aren't.

red herring
Something that draws attention away from the central issue, as in Talking about the new plant is a red herring to keep us from learning about downsizing plans. The herring in this expression is red and strong-smelling from being preserved by smoking. The idiom alludes to dragging a smoked herring across a trail to cover up the scent and throw off tracking dogs. [Late 1800s]
Actually, I would consider it more of a "Straw Man" than a red herring:

straw man
This article is about the logical fallacy. For other uses, see Straw man (disambiguation).
A straw man, or straw person, argument is a logical fallacy based on misrepresentation of an opponent's position. To "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is to create a position that is easy to refute, then attribute that position to the opponent. A straw-man argument can be a successful rhetorical technique (that is, it may succeed in persuading people) but it is in fact misleading, because the opponent's actual argument has not been refuted.

Its name is derived from the practice of using straw men in combat training. In such training, a scarecrow is made in the image of the enemy with the single intent of attacking it. [1] It is occasionally called a straw dog fallacy [2] or a scarecrow argument Person A: I don't think children should run into the busy streets.
Person B: I think that it would be foolish to lock up children all day with no fresh air.

[sarasmid]

Like I said, requiring boys to get the vaccine as well would be a more balanced argument than jimmy slicing. I agree with you completely on this. If any state insists on mandating the HPV vaccine for girls, then as soon as Merck perfects the vaccine for boys, I think they should get it, too.

But, as I said before, I'm highly against a mandatory HPV vaccine. (For the record, I'm also against forced circumcision.)

The mandatory vaccine would open a Pandara's box of mandatory STD vaccines, tests and procedures. An extreme would be mandatory circumcisions, since many studies show they reduce the risk of HPV contraction and transmission. Even more extreme would be mandatory cervix removals of HPV positive girls.

If you think that I'm projecting scenarios that are too extreme, I invite you to recall a law or ruling that started out with "good intent" and went terrible awry.

[elects]

The question is not to predict the worst and forbid any precursors that might actually do some good.

So long as they do well with them, I would LOVE it if they would get vaccines for all STD's and make them mandatory.

So long as they were not prone to adverse side effects, profitable to one company or another, or anything of the like.

Seperating diseases by means of contraction is just a stupid moralistic battle. You have a vaccine for genetal herpes? Make it mandatory so that 60 years from now you do not have to have toilet seat covers!

Saying that it is not needed because it is sex that transmits it and that sez is totally voluntary is denying the whole human species and its root instinct to procreate.

You do not need sex to live, but no matter what taboo they have put on it, LARGE numbers of people have still practiced it against the strictures of the peoples that call those that do sinners. So instead of playing the blame game, lets find a solution.




Oh, and circumcision is still a straw man. You can cut off the arms of all men to prevent violent crime, but that would ruin our market for wrist watches.

:crosseyed:

[evammaUselp]

Actually, I would consider it more of a "Straw Man" than a red herring:

You're right.

[I9dydJrX]

So long as they were not prone to adverse side effects...

But they are. Here is a supplement to the ones in post #14:




Vaccine Safety Group Releases GARDASIL Reaction Report

February 21, 2007 To: MEDICAL EDITORS


Contact: Barbara Loe Fisher, +1-703-928-0465, of the National Vaccine Information Center

WASHINGTON, Feb. 21 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The National Vaccine Information Center (NVIC) today released a new analysis of the federal Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) reports of serious health problems following HPV vaccination (Merck's GARDASIL) during the last six months of 2006. Out of the 385 individual GARDASIL adverse event reports made to VAERS, two-thirds required additional medical care and about one-third of all reports were for children 16-years-old and under, with nearly 25 percent of those children having received simultaneously one or more of the 18 vaccines that Merck did not study in combination with GARDASIL. NVIC is calling on the FDA and CDC to warn parents and doctors that GARDASIL should not be combined with other vaccines and that young girls should be monitored for at least 24 hours for syncopal (collapse/fainting) episodes that can be accompanied by seizure activity, as well as symptoms of tingling, numbness and loss of sensation in the fingers and limbs, all of which should be reported to VAERS immediately.

"Because Merck only studied GARDASIL in fewer than 1200 girls under age 16 in pre-licensure trials, it is critical that doctors and parents be made aware of the nature of the initial adverse event reports coming into VAERS and that they report serious health problems after vaccination when they occur," said NVIC President Barbara Loe Fisher. "There are twice as many children collapsing and four times as many children experiencing tingling, numbness and loss of sensation after getting a GARDASIL vaccination compared to those getting a Tdap (tetanus-diphtheria-acellular pertussis) vaccination. There have been reports of facial paralysis and Guillain-Barre Syndrome. And doctors who give GARDASIL in combination with other vaccines are basically conducting an experiment on their young patients because Merck has not published any safety data for simultaneous vaccination with any vaccine except hepatitis B vaccine."

According to NVIC's report, a majority of GARDASIL adverse event reports to VAERS involved those who suffered fever, nausea, headache or pain; 14 percent were for syncopal episodes with or without neurological signs; and 8 percent experienced tingling, numbness and loss of sensation, facial paralysis or Guillain-Barre Syndrome. Although adverse event reports to VAERS do not prove causation, they can provide an early warning sign that a new vaccine may be causing health problems that could be important. For example, reports to VAERS of bowel blockage (intussusception) in babies following receipt of Merck's Rota Teq (rotavirus) vaccine prompted the FDA to issue a public warning to doctors and consumers on Feb. 13.

"About 4 reports per day were filed with VAERS in December 2006 for the HPV vaccine," said NVIC Health Policy Analyst Vicky Debold, RN, Ph.D. "Some of these girls are being injured when they collapse after getting the vaccine and others are complaining of neurological symptoms that should not be ignored. Doctors and nurses should take note of the patient safety issues related to giving this vaccine. Giving GARDASIL simultaneously with any of the 18 vaccines Merck did not study in combination is not an evidence-based guideline and should involve informed consent and a signed patient release. To avoid unnecessary injuries, teenage girls should be vaccinated laying down, not be left unattended and probably should not walk or drive themselves home from the doctor's office after they get vaccinated."

NVIC also found that there were several VAERS reports of HPV infection, genital warts and cervical lesions after GARDASIL vaccination. It is unknown if the girls were infected with HPV before being vaccinated or if GARDASIL failed to protect them. One case of HPV infection occurred in a 22-year-old girl who had participated in a Merck GARDASIL trial in 2003 when she had shown "strong conversion to all 4 vaccine types" but "tested positive for high risk HPV" in 2006, according to the VAERS report.

In a May 18, 2006 Background Document for the FDA Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee (VRPBAC), the FDA staff stated that Merck clinical trial data indicated there may be "the potential for GARDASIL to enhance cervical disease in subjects who had evidence of persistent infection with vaccine-relevant HPV types prior to vaccination." Girls and women now being vaccinated with GARDASIL are not routinely being tested for active HPV infection before vaccination.

The FDA staff also questioned whether the "HPV types not contained in the vaccine might offset the overall clinical effectiveness of the vaccine." There are more than 15 types of HPV associated with cervical cancer but GARDASIL only contains HPV types 16 and 18. It is unknown whether non-vaccine HPV types will become more dominant in the future. However, there are indications this could occur because some of the seven strains of pneumococcal contained in Wyeth's PREVNAR vaccine, which was recommended by the CDC for universal use in all babies in 2000, have been replaced by some of the more than 80 other pneumococcal strains not contained in the vaccine.

VAERS is a passive surveillance system and depends upon voluntary reporting of serious health problems following vaccination, even though safety provisions in the National Childhood Vaccine Injury Act of 1986 mandated that health care providers report vaccine adverse events. There have been estimates that fewer than 10 percent, even as low as 1 to 4 percent, of adverse events which occur after prescription drug or vaccine use are ever reported to government adverse event reporting systems.

"If only 1 to 4 percent of all adverse events associated with GARDASIL vaccination are being reported to VAERS, there could have been up to 38,000 health problems after GARDASIL vaccination in 2006 which were never reported," said Fisher. "How many girls are really having short-term health problems associated with getting this vaccine that could turn into long-term neurological or immune system disorders? And how many will go on to develop fertility problems, cancer or damage to their genes, all of which Merck admits in its product insert that it has not studied at all? We just don't know enough to be mandating GARDASIL for anyone, much less vulnerable 11 to 12 year old girls entering puberty."

For a copy of NVIC's Report on VAERS and GARDASIL, references for this statement and information about how to report a vaccine reaction to VAERS, go to www.nvic.org.

SOURCE: National Vaccine Information Center

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/2007022...eaction_report

[Dilangfh]

Then THAT is the position that should be taken in the refutal rather than "unfair", "sexual conduct" and "morality".

Geez, if people get hurt from limited trials, and Merk is not being forced to relinquish license of the vaccine, then we should not be forcing it.

All other reasons do not hold any water.

[asivisepo]

Texas Governor Perry took Merck money before mandating cervical vaccine

rawstory.com
David Edwards and Mike Sheehan
February 22, 2007

Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) says that it's just a coincidence that he and eight other lawmakers received donations of $5,000 each from Merck lobbyists just a few days before mandating the drug giant's HPV cervical cancer vaccine for all females in Texas ages 12 and up.

"There's been a lot of pressure about the implications of vaccinating young girls against sexually-transmitted diseases," says CNN's Ali Velshi in the video below, "some people thinking that that encourages promiscuity at that age."

He reports though that "this thing is coming undone by word, rumor and report of connection between Rick Perry's office and Merck."

The main lobbyist for Merck previously worked as Chief of Staff for Gov. Rick Perry. Several other states are considering making the vaccine mandatory, thanks in part to Merck's aaggressive lobbying.

• Related: Texas governor orders anti-cancer vaccine for schoolgirls (02.02.2007)

Bypassing the Legislature, Republican Gov. Rick Perry signed an order Friday making Texas the first state to require that schoolgirls get vaccinated against the sexually transmitted virus that causes cervical cancer.

• Video: Merck backing off (02.21.07, 1:50)

[Grizli]

Texas Governor Defends Vaccine Order

newsday.com
By JOE STINEBAKER and LIZ AUSTIN PETERSON
Associated Press Writers

February 22, 2007, 5:10 PM EST

HOUSTON -- Gov. Rick Perry on Thursday angrily defended his relationship with Merck & Co. and his executive order requiring that 11- and 12-year-old girls receive the drugmaker's vaccine against the sexually transmitted cervical-cancer virus.

The Associated Press reported on Wednesday that Perry's chief of staff had met with key aides about the vaccine on Oct. 16, the same day Merck's political action committee donated $5,000 to the governor's campaign.

Perry, touring cancer centers around the state, said the contributions were just a small share of the $24 million he raised and had no effect on his decision.

"When a company comes to me and says we have a cure for cancer, for me not to say, `Please come into my office and let's hear your story for the people of the state of Texas, for young ladies who are dying of cancer,' would be the height of irresponsibility," the Republican governor said. "Whether or not they contributed to my campaign, I would suggest to you, are some of those weeds that we are trying to cut our way through."

Pressed on when he decided to issue the Feb. 2 executive order requiring the vaccination for sixth-grade girls, Perry snapped: "I wish you all would quit splitting hairs, frankly, and get focused on are we going to be working together to find the cure for cancers. No, I can't tell you when."

In issuing the order, the governor made Texas the first state to require the vaccine Gardasil for all schoolgirls. But many lawmakers have complained about his bypassing the Legislature altogether. And the disclosure regarding the campaign contributions could add momentum to an attempt by legislators to repeal Perry's executive order.

Some GOP lawmakers said they were uncomfortable with the timing of the contributions.

"It's really a question of integrity ... whether or not his decisions were based on the contribution," state Rep. Linda Harper Brown.

The executive order has inflamed conservatives, who said it contradicts Texas' abstinence-only sexual education policies and intrudes into families' lives.

On Wednesday, before the campaign contributions became known, the state House public health committee voted 6-3 to override Perry's order and sent the bill -- co-sponsored by nearly two-thirds of state representatives -- to the full House.

The House is not expected to take up the measure until mid-March. A repeal bill has also been introduced in the Senate, with nearly half the chamber signing on.

Perry said he has not decided whether to veto the bill if it reaches his desk.

"I highly respect the legislative process that we have, and so I would respectfully tell you that we will let it play its way out," he said. "But do you think we would be having the debate today on HPV if I had said, `Let's pass some legislation?'"

Critics have previously questioned Perry's ties to Merck. Mike Toomey, Perry's former chief of staff, now lobbies for the drug company. And the governor accepted a total of $6,000 from Merck during his re-election campaign.

Merck has waged a behind-the-scenes lobbying campaign to get state legislatures to require girls to get the three-dose vaccine to enroll in school. But on Tuesday the pharmaceutical company announced it was suspending the effort because of pressure from parents and medical groups.

Associated Press writer April Castro in Austin, Texas, and Linda A. Johnson in Trenton, N.J., contributed to this report.

Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc.

[plaiskegizils]

The executive order has inflamed IDIOTS, who said it contradicts Texas' abstinence-only sexual education policies and intrudes into families' lives. MUCH better!

Figures people will focus on things that make them feel uncomfortable than on the actual issues at hand.

[86GlSqSK]

Company pushing cancer vaccine lobbied NY hard

BY KATHLEEN KERR
kathleen.kerr@newsday.com
March 8, 2007

As the pharmaceutical giant Merck & Co. prepared to market a new cancer vaccine, it spent more than $500,000 lobbying in New York State and contributing to key officials, including two from Long Island.

The company wanted state legislatures to require cervical cancer vaccinations for girls before they have sexual intercourse. At the same time, Merck was lobbying state officials on other issues; it could not be determined how much was spent on cervical cancer.

Merck's Gardasil prevents 70 percent of cervical cancers and was the only vaccine available. The company lobbied heavily across the country for mandatory shots, in a demonstration of how corporations try to influence health care policy.

Merck spokesman Raymond Kerins said the company lobbied because it wanted to get the vaccine to protect women. It eventually stopped after consulting medical and scientific experts, he said, noting, "We want people to focus on having a discussion about cervical cancer and women's health."

Tallying cost of prevention

Cervical cancer kills about 233,000 women worldwide each year -- 3,700 in the U.S. Gardasil defeats two strains of the sexually transmitted human papillomavirus that cause cervical cancer. It works best if women receive it before ever having sex.

But opponents question Gardasil's cost -- about $400 for the three shots -- and unknown side effects. Some conservatives argue Gardasil could lead to promiscuity if girls mistakenly believe it protects against all sexually transmitted diseases.

State records show Merck contributed $106,000 to "housekeeping accounts" of various New York Republican and Democratic committees between 1999 and 2006. The accounts are supposed to pay for expenses such as rent and telephones, but critics say it can be difficult to trace how the money is spent.

Merck gave $33,400 to Democratic accounts and $72,600 to Republican accounts -- including $10,000 to the New York Republican State Committee. "Those were under prior state chairmen, so I decline to comment," said Anthony Santino, spokesman for GOP state chairman Joseph Mondello.

Phil Oliva, spokesman for the Assembly's Republican conference, said: "We occasionally have individual groups contribute to the housekeeping account [for the GOP Assembly Campaign Committee]. There's never been a quid pro quo."

Assemb. Ron Canestrari (D-Cohoes), the Democratic Assembly Campaign Committee chairman, said Merck never lobbied him. "I assume they made the contributions either in response to different functions we have during the course of the year and generally to support our efforts here, the majority, in the Assembly," Canestrari said.

Deputy Senate majority leader Dean Skelos (R-Rockville Centre) and Senate health committee chairman Sen. Kemp Hannon (R-Garden City), and Assistant Assembly speaker Rhoda Jacobs (D-Flatbush) were the three lawmakers who received the most from Merck.

Between 1999 and 2006, Skelos received $4,300, Hannon received $3,150 and Jacobs received $3,950.

Skelos spokesman Tom Dunham said: "As far as contributions generally, Merck along with a number of other groups, they contribute to a number of other members.

Hannon spokesman Christopher Bastardi said: "He in recent memory has not met with Merck in the past couple of years."

Pressing state lawmakers

The bulk of Merck's New York expenses between 2003 and 2006 went to lobbying. Records kept by The New York Temporary State Commission on Lobbying show Merck spent $384,203.

Between 2004 and 2006, Merck listed cervical cancer and vaccine policy among its reasons for lobbying. Other reasons included prescription drug assistance, diabetes and mercury in vaccines. Merck said it intended to lobby the Assembly, the Senate, the governor, the lieutenant governor and the health department.

The Food and Drug Administration approved Gardasil in 2006. An advisory panel of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention recommended shots for 11 and 12-year-old girls but did not require them.

Dr. John Treanor, professor of medicine at the University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry, served on the CDC panel. "I think decisions about the mandatory nature of vaccines have to be made very carefully," he said. "I personally would not be in favor at this time of mandatory vaccination."

Dr. Robert Baltimore, a Yale University School of Medicine professor, is on the American Academy of Pediatrics' infectious disease committee. He said: "It doesn't exactly meet the same health standards that other vaccinations that are mandatory meet."

AAP doesn't support the mandatory shots. Baltimore said states should concentrate on finding money to pay for Gardasil for people who can't afford it.

On Feb. 20, Merck stopped lobbying for mandatory shots but already had spent considerable time and money trying to influence lawmakers. On Feb. 23, Assemb. Amy Paulin (D-Scarsdale) introduced a bill requiring cervical cancer vaccinations for girls. "I was very excited about a vaccine on the market that would eradicate cervical cancer," she said. "I reached out to Merck."

Paulin received one $500 contribution from Merck. She met with Merck's representatives several times but said they did not pressure her.

Gov. Eliot Spitzer's proposed budget includes $1.5 million for cervical cancer shots for low-income girls and women. Texas Gov. Rick Perry recently made the shots mandatory for 11- and 12-year-old girls entering sixth grade. His former chief of staff is a Merck lobbyist. Twenty states have bills mandating the shots.

Staff Writer Tom McGinty contributed to this story. Copyright 2007 Newsday Inc.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/lo...tory?track=rss

[huedaanydrax]

The parents should be able to opt out, but the default should be to vaccinate. Parents should lose the right to opt out as the vaccine proves itself further. If we made it voluntary to vaccinate for polio, the disease would still be around.

[RildFiemodo]

investordude, I agree with you on this one.

I have an 11 year old. I asked her doctor who has known us for years, and who indicated that with many clients and in many communities doctors are recommending this series of shots starting at age 9. For our daughter, he thought she should begin her shots at 13. It's not that we antiipate that she'll be active, but if you can prevent cervical cancer with a shot, why shouldn't we? Or maybe it is because that this may help women be sexual individuals without fear?