1 in 4 young U.S. Muslims OK suicide bombings: Pew Poll - DiscussWorldIssues - Socio-Economic Religion and Political Uncensored Debate

**BliliBoopsy** · 05-23-2007, 01:37 PM

Poll finds some U.S. Muslim support for suicide attacks

By David Morgan
May 22, 2007

About one-quarter of young American Muslims believe to some extent that suicide bombings can be justified to defend Islam, while nearly 80 percent of all U.S. Muslims reject such attacks, a survey showed on Tuesday.

The nationwide poll of 1,050 Muslim adults by the Pew Research Center said the U.S. Muslim community is largely moderate, assimilated and happy.

But the community also contains pockets of support for Islamist militancy among Muslims aged 18-30 and black Muslims, the survey showed.

The survey, billed as one of the most far-reaching polls of Muslims living in the United States, asked the following question about suicide attacks:
"Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified.

"Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?"
The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified, compared with 69 percent who believed such attacks can never be accepted.

By contrast, 13 percent of all U.S. Muslims felt suicide attacks could be justified often, sometimes or rarely, while 78 percent completely rejected the deadly tactic that has been used by al Qaeda and other Islamist militants.

The poll, conducted from January 24 to April 30 in four languages, had a 5 percent margin of error.

"It's not something they see themselves engaging in. It's more of them seeing what's happening abroad and ... feeling that in these situations, suicide bombings are justified for others," said Farid Senzai of the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, a Michigan-based research group that studies U.S. domestic and foreign policy.

Senzai attended the news conference as a member of the Pew survey project's outside advisory board.

Experts said the level of Muslim youth support for suicide bombings was similar to patterns seen in Europe.

Support in some degree for suicide bombings among younger European Muslims ranged from 22 percent in Germany to 29 percent in Spain, 35 percent in Britain and 42 percent in France, according to a May 2006 Pew poll.

Pew estimates that there are 2.35 million Muslims living in the United States, a tiny fraction of an overall U.S. population of 300 million people. But Muslim population estimates vary widely, ranging as high as 7 million, because the U.S. Census Bureau does not ask about religious affiliations in its national surveys.

Pollsters said they were surprised to find that only 40 percent of U.S. Muslims believed Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington.

The survey suggested 53 percent of Muslims believe their life has become more difficult since the 2001 attacks because of discrimination or government surveillance.

But the findings also showed that 78 percent of U.S. Muslims are either "pretty happy" or "very happy" with their lives.

Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070522/...lims_poll_dc_1

**WapSaibian** · 05-23-2007, 06:28 PM

now if only we can send those 1 in 4 back to where they came from.... Seriously, this is scary to think that 1 in 4 young Muslims think that suicide bombings is okay. Even so, when were fighting in Iraq.

**seekfrieddy** · 05-23-2007, 07:55 PM

I'm sure deporting a quarter of the faith's US population would curb the feelings of isolation and war of faiths which leads to suicide bombing...

**womberte** · 05-23-2007, 09:26 PM

now if only we can send those 1 in 4 back to where they came from....

... and if they were born in the USA, we just establish a test for a "pure american". Bravo, Dr. Goebbels!

**Veronnisa** · 05-23-2007, 09:51 PM

now if only we can send those 1 in 4 back to where they came from.... Seriously, this is scary to think that 1 in 4 young Muslims think that suicide bombings is okay. Even so, when were fighting in Iraq.

Now that wont happen, Bush wants to grant the illegals amnesty for breaking the law ( of which 45,000 of the ones that would get this have been convicted of a felony) as well as import 25,000 Iraqis because they need a new home since he blew theres up!!

**PeterPatrickJohn** · 05-23-2007, 11:19 PM

Re-read what the statement says.

1 in 4 believes that it is OK, GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES.

"Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?" So if a foreign nation came in and invaded and made Islam illegal, would you believe that it would be OK for a person, not you, to commit suicide to attack them in "defense" of your religion?

That is how I see them reading the question.

The title of the story is another distortion intended to get your attension by manipulation of context.

**oxinsnepe** · 05-24-2007, 01:08 AM

Very true. It is also worth remembering that jihad is primarily about "inner struggles" - rather like obeying ones conscience. There are five forms of jihad:

Jihad of the heart/soul
Jihad by the tongue
Jihad by the pen and knowledge
Jihad by the hand
Jihad by the sword

Jihad by the sword, the only one the media mentions, is meant to be used "against injustice and oppression" or "against the rejecters of truth after it has become evident to them".

**twiffatticy** · 05-24-2007, 01:57 AM

IMO you should be ashamed for posting that bigoted NY Post drivel.

As Ninjahedge indicated, the headline was a fabrication by Murdoch, intended to rile up the wacko segment of the Post's readership.

Muslims in the U.S. are overwhelmingly here to work and live their lives, nothing more. Why do you think they moved here in the first place? These types of headlines only increase the ignorance among non-Muslims.

Also the study showed that immigrants were generally NOT the 25%. It was generally African American converts, who often practice a brand of Islam that is alien to the rest of the Islamic world. Nation of Islam, etc. is not considered Islam by other Muslims.

**Andoror** · 05-24-2007, 02:49 AM

a brand of Islam that is alien to the rest of the Islamic world.

"Rest of the Islamic world" is monolithic?

Nation of Islam, etc. is not considered Islam by other Muslims. Is Nation of Islam Sunni or Shia?

And who is "etc."?

**TeNuaTe** · 05-24-2007, 07:42 AM

Is Nation of Islam Sunni or Shia?

Nation of Islam is neither. In fact it has nothing to really do with Islam at all except it was (maybe) inspired by it in one way or another but aside from that it is not Islam. If you read their 'doctrine' you'll be shocked to see how much of it is so unbelievable.

**Amoniustauns** · 05-24-2007, 08:06 AM

The title of the story is another distortion intended to get your attension by manipulation of context.

There are two "story titles": The one Reuters gave in the article, and the one I put up. Which title did you object to, or did you object to both of them?

When I did a search on the topic, I found that just about every headline was a bit inflamatory and distorted. By now there are probably articles that are rich on objective news/statistics and include "meaty" charts. When the news was first disclosed early yesterday morning, however, Reuters had just about the best article around.

If your objection is more to the title I put up, perhaps you can suggest a better one. I'm not adverse to asking a moderator to change my topic title if it isn't too good, and if there's a really good one out there.

**yQvpyNt3** · 05-24-2007, 02:44 PM

If you read their 'doctrine' you'll be shocked to see how much of it is so unbelievable.

By one standard, everything that requires faith is unbelievable After all, "faith is the certainty of what is not seen."

By this standard, it's all unbelievable.

(Read the Koran; it may be the "original", but I think you'll find it pretty hard to take.)

**Arrecteve** · 05-24-2007, 04:12 PM

There are two "story titles": The one Reuters gave in the article, and the one I put up. Which title did you object to, or did you object to both of them?

When I did a search on the topic, I found that just about every headline was a bit inflamatory and distorted. By now there are probably articles that are rich on objective news/statistics and include "meaty" charts. When the news was first disclosed early yesterday morning, however, Reuters had just about the best article around.

If your objection is more to the title I put up, perhaps you can suggest a better one. I'm not adverse to asking a moderator to change my topic title if it isn't too good, and if there's a really good one out there.

Ummm....

Do YOU think 25% of the muslim population in the us support suicide attacks, or do you think that that is a bit of a biased assesment by whoever wrote the article?

Even the more moderate "Some US Muslim support for suicide attacks" is just another pot stirrer.

Geez, you know there were probably some people out there that supported the DC sniper! But no, we have to go around doing limited polls that are somehow inferred to represent the entire US population and construe from a single tag line that somehow the radical movement has solid roots in the US.

Or, more importantly (for sales, not for security) that we should be afraid and read more about the possible threat.

Rap, I am not going after you here,although your title may be better as something else, it does reflect the general feeling of the article you posted.

Don't take everythnig so personally! (if you are, that is...)

**AgindyMinnife** · 05-24-2007, 04:54 PM

...by the tongue

By the tongue? Ouchies.

**phenterminediett** · 05-24-2007, 09:00 PM

... and if they were born in the USA, we just establish a test for a "pure american". Bravo, Dr. Goebbels!

Ed, it was a joke!

**PNCarl** · 05-24-2007, 11:00 PM

By one standard, everything that requires faith is unbelievable After all, "faith is the certainty of what is not seen."

By this standard, it's all unbelievable.

(Read the Koran; it may be the "original", but I think you'll find it pretty hard to take.)

For a lack of a better word I used unbelievable knowing that one of you would point out that all religion is unbelievable. I'm not quite sure what word I want to use, maybe I'll just term them a fringe group.

**Hodstcopter** · 05-25-2007, 08:14 AM

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object...Q00ET1.DTL&o=0

**cbUDaNFRu** · 05-31-2007, 11:06 PM

In this society,the Western one,most citizens are considered "normal" if they live their lives without doing things like murder,killing kids,blowing up shopping centers,etc.
"Normal" folks don't stockpile AK-47s,they don't behead people they disagree with,they don't blow up cannisters of chlorine in residential neighborhoods.When normal people disagree,they usually don't institute vendettas,burn down villages or drive explosive-laden trucks into skyscraper parking garages.Norms never give thought to carrying explosives onto public transportation or of flying planes into buildings.
Nor do they outfit their kids with bomb vests or teach them that having horrible,dark thoughts of hate and murder and slaughtering your enemy are OK,then show them how to act out their fantasies.

There are exceptions,of course,conditions which drive relatively sane people into doing horrible things.People like McVeigh,Bundy,the Virginia Tech butcher,the drug gangs,etc.,emerge from the norm and do their nasty deeds,but they are considered an abberation,not of the norm at all,even though they may have dwelt there for years looking just like everyone else.There really aren't that many of them,though.The statistics relating to these people are miniscule in the overall pool of their peers.

Some of these mental misfits telegraph their sociopathy early.They bully other kids,push the baby down the stairs,torture smalll animals and do all sorts of punk things that even casual onlookers recognize as potential trouble.They speak out loud the things they want to do,yet they are not heard.Clueless parents see the signs but don't know what to do,teachers fear them,schoolmates steer clear.

They seek out and find others like themselves,kids who understand that they are different.Ostricised by most,they reinforce their ideas in a relative vacuum,creating for themselves a "normal" that they can relate to.
The law usually learns about them early.
These are not normal children.
You have probably known someone like that,or will someday.

One day,they snap,step forever from the "normal" world and we have Columbine,or Va Tech or 9/11--or worse--definitely something that is not normal.

Yet,despite a wealth of clues,nobody can stop them until they rain hell down upon their usually innocent victims.

Which all brings me to the statistic about Muslim kids condoning murder.
Now I know that all Muslims are not terrorists.
Despite the bad deeds done by their co-religionists,most of them,in this society,at least,could be considered "normal".Most of them came here to get away from the endless rounds of strife that plague the Mideast.
They are the people on the bus,the convenience store guy,your Doctor.They work,pay bills,go to Disney World,etc.,and never entertain thoughts of mass murder.To Americans,their ways may be different or unusual but so what???

How is it then,that among their quasi-Americanized population they have managed to raise a non-normal subgroup of children who are openly telegraphing their murder/death fantasies,and that this group constitutes 25% of ALL Muslim kids in the US (or,at least in the survey)??
That's a rather large number.If even a tiny percentage act out and kill and maim,it's STILL a large number for the US to have within our cities.

Did this attitude come from their seemingly normal parents,or from their schooling--and how much does the media influence this kind of thinking???Who recruits and teaches a kid about death and enemies and suicide,and why would Muslim kids have such a large percentage who admit to being suicidal???
What,exactly do the mosques teach???

Is this,for thousands of young Muslims,the new normal,and can we expect some of them to boldly act out their fantasies on OUR streets and subways and pizza joints,destroying the lives of innocents in this country like their kind did in Israel,Egypt,France,Turkey,Palestine,Bali,Lebanon, England,Germany,Iraq,Morrocco,et.al.???

**gydrorway** · 06-01-2007, 06:02 AM

What,exactly do the mosques teach???

I've designed a mosque but never attended a service.

I've read the Koran, and if they teach the Koran, your question is answered. By itself, it explains the phenomenon that you find puzzling.

It's what you'd expect from scripture composed by a warrior.

**fd8IIys2** · 06-01-2007, 06:53 PM

This whole issue remined me of this comic strip:

Non Seqitur is the best.

05-23-2007, 01:37 PM	#1
BliliBoopsy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 429 Senior Member	1 in 4 young U.S. Muslims OK suicide bombings: Pew Poll Poll finds some U.S. Muslim support for suicide attacks By David Morgan May 22, 2007 About one-quarter of young American Muslims believe to some extent that suicide bombings can be justified to defend Islam, while nearly 80 percent of all U.S. Muslims reject such attacks, a survey showed on Tuesday. The nationwide poll of 1,050 Muslim adults by the Pew Research Center said the U.S. Muslim community is largely moderate, assimilated and happy. But the community also contains pockets of support for Islamist militancy among Muslims aged 18-30 and black Muslims, the survey showed. The survey, billed as one of the most far-reaching polls of Muslims living in the United States, asked the following question about suicide attacks: "Some people think that suicide bombing and other forms of violence against civilian targets are justified in order to defend Islam from its enemies. Other people believe that, no matter what the reason, this kind of violence is never justified. "Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?" The survey found 26 percent of younger Muslims believed suicide bombings are often, sometimes or rarely justified, compared with 69 percent who believed such attacks can never be accepted. By contrast, 13 percent of all U.S. Muslims felt suicide attacks could be justified often, sometimes or rarely, while 78 percent completely rejected the deadly tactic that has been used by al Qaeda and other Islamist militants. The poll, conducted from January 24 to April 30 in four languages, had a 5 percent margin of error. "It's not something they see themselves engaging in. It's more of them seeing what's happening abroad and ... feeling that in these situations, suicide bombings are justified for others," said Farid Senzai of the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding, a Michigan-based research group that studies U.S. domestic and foreign policy. Senzai attended the news conference as a member of the Pew survey project's outside advisory board. Experts said the level of Muslim youth support for suicide bombings was similar to patterns seen in Europe. Support in some degree for suicide bombings among younger European Muslims ranged from 22 percent in Germany to 29 percent in Spain, 35 percent in Britain and 42 percent in France, according to a May 2006 Pew poll. Pew estimates that there are 2.35 million Muslims living in the United States, a tiny fraction of an overall U.S. population of 300 million people. But Muslim population estimates vary widely, ranging as high as 7 million, because the U.S. Census Bureau does not ask about religious affiliations in its national surveys. Pollsters said they were surprised to find that only 40 percent of U.S. Muslims believed Arabs carried out the September 11 attacks on New York and Washington. The survey suggested 53 percent of Muslims believe their life has become more difficult since the 2001 attacks because of discrimination or government surveillance. But the findings also showed that 78 percent of U.S. Muslims are either "pretty happy" or "very happy" with their lives. Copyright © 2007 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070522/...lims_poll_dc_1 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-23-2007, 06:28 PM	#2
WapSaibian Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 452 Senior Member	now if only we can send those 1 in 4 back to where they came from.... Seriously, this is scary to think that 1 in 4 young Muslims think that suicide bombings is okay. Even so, when were fighting in Iraq. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-23-2007, 07:55 PM	#3
seekfrieddy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 350 Senior Member	I'm sure deporting a quarter of the faith's US population would curb the feelings of isolation and war of faiths which leads to suicide bombing... Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-23-2007, 09:26 PM	#4
womberte Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 408 Senior Member	now if only we can send those 1 in 4 back to where they came from.... ... and if they were born in the USA, we just establish a test for a "pure american". Bravo, Dr. Goebbels! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-23-2007, 09:51 PM	#5
Veronnisa Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 342 Senior Member	now if only we can send those 1 in 4 back to where they came from.... Seriously, this is scary to think that 1 in 4 young Muslims think that suicide bombings is okay. Even so, when were fighting in Iraq. Now that wont happen, Bush wants to grant the illegals amnesty for breaking the law ( of which 45,000 of the ones that would get this have been convicted of a felony) as well as import 25,000 Iraqis because they need a new home since he blew theres up!! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-23-2007, 11:19 PM	#6
PeterPatrickJohn Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 475 Senior Member	Re-read what the statement says. 1 in 4 believes that it is OK, GIVEN THE RIGHT CIRCUMSTANCES. "Do you personally feel that this kind of violence is often justified to defend Islam, sometimes justified, rarely justified or never justified?" So if a foreign nation came in and invaded and made Islam illegal, would you believe that it would be OK for a person, not you, to commit suicide to attack them in "defense" of your religion? That is how I see them reading the question. The title of the story is another distortion intended to get your attension by manipulation of context. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 01:08 AM	#7
oxinsnepe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 489 Senior Member	Very true. It is also worth remembering that jihad is primarily about "inner struggles" - rather like obeying ones conscience. There are five forms of jihad: Jihad of the heart/soul Jihad by the tongue Jihad by the pen and knowledge Jihad by the hand Jihad by the sword Jihad by the sword, the only one the media mentions, is meant to be used "against injustice and oppression" or "against the rejecters of truth after it has become evident to them". Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 01:57 AM	#8
twiffatticy Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 641 Senior Member	IMO you should be ashamed for posting that bigoted NY Post drivel. As Ninjahedge indicated, the headline was a fabrication by Murdoch, intended to rile up the wacko segment of the Post's readership. Muslims in the U.S. are overwhelmingly here to work and live their lives, nothing more. Why do you think they moved here in the first place? These types of headlines only increase the ignorance among non-Muslims. Also the study showed that immigrants were generally NOT the 25%. It was generally African American converts, who often practice a brand of Islam that is alien to the rest of the Islamic world. Nation of Islam, etc. is not considered Islam by other Muslims. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 02:49 AM	#9
Andoror Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 647 Senior Member	a brand of Islam that is alien to the rest of the Islamic world. "Rest of the Islamic world" is monolithic? Nation of Islam, etc. is not considered Islam by other Muslims. Is Nation of Islam Sunni or Shia? And who is "etc."? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 07:42 AM	#10
TeNuaTe Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 449 Senior Member	Is Nation of Islam Sunni or Shia? Nation of Islam is neither. In fact it has nothing to really do with Islam at all except it was (maybe) inspired by it in one way or another but aside from that it is not Islam. If you read their 'doctrine' you'll be shocked to see how much of it is so unbelievable. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 08:06 AM	#11
Amoniustauns Join Date Nov 2005 Posts 395 Senior Member	The title of the story is another distortion intended to get your attension by manipulation of context. There are two "story titles": The one Reuters gave in the article, and the one I put up. Which title did you object to, or did you object to both of them? When I did a search on the topic, I found that just about every headline was a bit inflamatory and distorted. By now there are probably articles that are rich on objective news/statistics and include "meaty" charts. When the news was first disclosed early yesterday morning, however, Reuters had just about the best article around. If your objection is more to the title I put up, perhaps you can suggest a better one. I'm not adverse to asking a moderator to change my topic title if it isn't too good, and if there's a really good one out there. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 02:44 PM	#12
yQvpyNt3 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 425 Senior Member	If you read their 'doctrine' you'll be shocked to see how much of it is so unbelievable. By one standard, everything that requires faith is unbelievable After all, "faith is the certainty of what is not seen." By this standard, it's all unbelievable. (Read the Koran; it may be the "original", but I think you'll find it pretty hard to take.) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 04:12 PM	#13
Arrecteve Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 470 Senior Member	There are two "story titles": The one Reuters gave in the article, and the one I put up. Which title did you object to, or did you object to both of them? When I did a search on the topic, I found that just about every headline was a bit inflamatory and distorted. By now there are probably articles that are rich on objective news/statistics and include "meaty" charts. When the news was first disclosed early yesterday morning, however, Reuters had just about the best article around. If your objection is more to the title I put up, perhaps you can suggest a better one. I'm not adverse to asking a moderator to change my topic title if it isn't too good, and if there's a really good one out there. Ummm.... Do YOU think 25% of the muslim population in the us support suicide attacks, or do you think that that is a bit of a biased assesment by whoever wrote the article? Even the more moderate "Some US Muslim support for suicide attacks" is just another pot stirrer. Geez, you know there were probably some people out there that supported the DC sniper! But no, we have to go around doing limited polls that are somehow inferred to represent the entire US population and construe from a single tag line that somehow the radical movement has solid roots in the US. Or, more importantly (for sales, not for security) that we should be afraid and read more about the possible threat. Rap, I am not going after you here,although your title may be better as something else, it does reflect the general feeling of the article you posted. Don't take everythnig so personally! (if you are, that is...) Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 04:54 PM	#14
AgindyMinnife Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 392 Senior Member	...by the tongue By the tongue? Ouchies. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-24-2007, 09:00 PM	#15
phenterminediett Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 500 Senior Member	... and if they were born in the USA, we just establish a test for a "pure american". Bravo, Dr. Goebbels! Ed, it was a joke! Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)

05-24-2007, 11:00 PM	#16
PNCarl Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 406 Senior Member	By one standard, everything that requires faith is unbelievable After all, "faith is the certainty of what is not seen." By this standard, it's all unbelievable. (Read the Koran; it may be the "original", but I think you'll find it pretty hard to take.) For a lack of a better word I used unbelievable knowing that one of you would point out that all religion is unbelievable. I'm not quite sure what word I want to use, maybe I'll just term them a fringe group. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-25-2007, 08:14 AM	#17
Hodstcopter Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 440 Senior Member	http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object...Q00ET1.DTL&o=0 Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

05-31-2007, 11:06 PM	#18
cbUDaNFRu Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 451 Senior Member	In this society,the Western one,most citizens are considered "normal" if they live their lives without doing things like murder,killing kids,blowing up shopping centers,etc. "Normal" folks don't stockpile AK-47s,they don't behead people they disagree with,they don't blow up cannisters of chlorine in residential neighborhoods.When normal people disagree,they usually don't institute vendettas,burn down villages or drive explosive-laden trucks into skyscraper parking garages.Norms never give thought to carrying explosives onto public transportation or of flying planes into buildings. Nor do they outfit their kids with bomb vests or teach them that having horrible,dark thoughts of hate and murder and slaughtering your enemy are OK,then show them how to act out their fantasies. There are exceptions,of course,conditions which drive relatively sane people into doing horrible things.People like McVeigh,Bundy,the Virginia Tech butcher,the drug gangs,etc.,emerge from the norm and do their nasty deeds,but they are considered an abberation,not of the norm at all,even though they may have dwelt there for years looking just like everyone else.There really aren't that many of them,though.The statistics relating to these people are miniscule in the overall pool of their peers. Some of these mental misfits telegraph their sociopathy early.They bully other kids,push the baby down the stairs,torture smalll animals and do all sorts of punk things that even casual onlookers recognize as potential trouble.They speak out loud the things they want to do,yet they are not heard.Clueless parents see the signs but don't know what to do,teachers fear them,schoolmates steer clear. They seek out and find others like themselves,kids who understand that they are different.Ostricised by most,they reinforce their ideas in a relative vacuum,creating for themselves a "normal" that they can relate to. The law usually learns about them early. These are not normal children. You have probably known someone like that,or will someday. One day,they snap,step forever from the "normal" world and we have Columbine,or Va Tech or 9/11--or worse--definitely something that is not normal. Yet,despite a wealth of clues,nobody can stop them until they rain hell down upon their usually innocent victims. Which all brings me to the statistic about Muslim kids condoning murder. Now I know that all Muslims are not terrorists. Despite the bad deeds done by their co-religionists,most of them,in this society,at least,could be considered "normal".Most of them came here to get away from the endless rounds of strife that plague the Mideast. They are the people on the bus,the convenience store guy,your Doctor.They work,pay bills,go to Disney World,etc.,and never entertain thoughts of mass murder.To Americans,their ways may be different or unusual but so what??? How is it then,that among their quasi-Americanized population they have managed to raise a non-normal subgroup of children who are openly telegraphing their murder/death fantasies,and that this group constitutes 25% of ALL Muslim kids in the US (or,at least in the survey)?? That's a rather large number.If even a tiny percentage act out and kill and maim,it's STILL a large number for the US to have within our cities. Did this attitude come from their seemingly normal parents,or from their schooling--and how much does the media influence this kind of thinking???Who recruits and teaches a kid about death and enemies and suicide,and why would Muslim kids have such a large percentage who admit to being suicidal??? What,exactly do the mosques teach??? Is this,for thousands of young Muslims,the new normal,and can we expect some of them to boldly act out their fantasies on OUR streets and subways and pizza joints,destroying the lives of innocents in this country like their kind did in Israel,Egypt,France,Turkey,Palestine,Bali,Lebanon, England,Germany,Iraq,Morrocco,et.al.??? Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-01-2007, 06:02 AM	#19
gydrorway Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 556 Senior Member	What,exactly do the mosques teach??? I've designed a mosque but never attended a service. I've read the Koran, and if they teach the Koran, your question is answered. By itself, it explains the phenomenon that you find puzzling. It's what you'd expect from scripture composed by a warrior. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote

06-01-2007, 06:53 PM	#20
fd8IIys2 Join Date Oct 2005 Posts 398 Senior Member	This whole issue remined me of this comic strip: Non Seqitur is the best. Share Share this post on Digg Del.icio.us Technorati Twitter
	Quote