[Reftsheette]

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/wichman.asp



I think the last line in the piece is too much.



"Like talking to your wife or kids".



I say he is entitled to his opinion, and if others are allowed to protest, so is he, but I do not think he thought this out before he sent it, and now he is being a weasel.

(Old news, I know, but relatively new on Snopes)

[DJElizardo]

It is wrong to assume all muslims are fanatics, as it is to assume all christians belong to the right wing with extreme views..

The world did not badmouth Christianity for what Hitler did to Jews..What this small segment of Muslims doing should remind every peace loving person in the world is that it is the FANATICISM that is the #1 enemy of Humanity, FANATICISM of any kind...

[mv37afnr]

Aside from the basic generalization that was used in the letetr MC, was he right in saying what he did?

Is it right for someone to protest the protestors who are protesting about OTHER protestors making cartoons?

[vladekad]

Perhaps these organizations should start taking responsability for Muslims as a group, if they want to protest the abuse of Muslims as a group.

I find this completely ridiculous, because whenever something bad is done by a Muslim they say "not all muslims blah blah blah" but when a Christian says something about A Muslim they say "omfg, you insulted our peoples and our prophet you infidels!"

The fact that there are also NO Christian student organizations in Muslim countries (with a handful of exceptions) is also notable IMO.

It has become so taboo to say ANYTHING negative about people other than white christians that we've completely lost sight of simple truths. Next time an American is beheaded (which is quite often) we should take a few million people, fly to EVERY Muslim country regardless of the degree of blame (as the Muslim protesters did) and protest.

BOTTOM LINE:

A Muslim Student Organization should be for people who want to peacefully practice their religion as Americans (or Canadians, or wherever they live), it should absolutely NEVER be a lobbying group for murdering scumbags which it often tends to be.

[Piediahef]

I find this completely ridiculous, because whenever something bad is done by a Muslim they say "not all muslims blah blah blah" but when a Christian says something about A Muslim they say "omfg, you insulted our peoples and our prophet you infidels!"

Um, I see where you are going with this jake, but the statements are not directly comparable.


The thing is, the second part is a generalization applied to everyone. Both of their statements are asking for the word "muslim" to not mean "Terrorist" or "radical".

It is a very sticky issue between free press, human rights, and respect for others.

There is no way to write laws about this that would not short change one of the groups.

[zzarratusstra]

Aside from the basic generalization that was used in the letetr MC, was he right in saying what he did?

Is it right for someone to protest the protestors who are protesting about OTHER protestors making cartoons?

I have no problem with someone practicing free speech.. He has every right, in my opinion, to say whatever he wants.. But, I think, for such an educated person to show that kind of emotion and use such generalization is quite wrong.. We must first familirize ourselves with the culture of the people we are protesting against and try to understand why they are so angry with the Danish Cartoons, before we call all muslims fanatics..

[mudozvonf]

Perhaps these organizations should start taking responsibility for Muslims as a group, if they want to protest the abuse of Muslims as a group.

Not too much to ask.

It has become so taboo to say ANYTHING negative about people other than white christians that we've completely lost sight of simple truths.

This is the line where political correctness joins hands with religious fanaticism --a peculiar coalition made possible by the fact that both are substitutes for truth and thought.

.

[dHXaE2h9]

well those simple truths are that he is not wrong....all those events listed by him really took place AND they were carried out on religious grounds.

Another truth is that the Danish cartoons story is bullshit, come on, really think about how much people give a shit about some Danish newspaper's cartoons, and what do we get? Global protests as if the world was ending.

[VarenHokalos]

well those simple truths are that he is not wrong....all those events listed by him really took place AND they were carried out on religious grounds.

Another truth is that the Danish cartoons story is bullshit, come on, really think about how much people give a shit about some Danish newspaper's cartoons, and what do we get? Global protests as if the world was ending.

What you might find BS, as an ignorant American, is really the biggest problem in America. IGNORANCE...Read, read and read some more before you make a comment about something as deep as Danish Cartoons...

If it wasn't for your kind , this world would be a much safer place... BUSH would not be running the show...

Sincerely...

[largonioulurI]

well those simple truths are that he is not wrong....all those events listed by him really took place AND they were carried out on religious grounds.

Another truth is that the Danish cartoons story is bullshit, come on, really think about how much people give a shit about some Danish newspaper's cartoons, and what do we get? Global protests as if the world was ending.

What you might find BS, as an ignorant American, is really the biggest problem in America. IGNORANCE...Read, read and read some more before you make a comment about something as deep as Danish Cartoons...

[GlarlraTpople]

What you might find BS, as an ignorant American, is really the biggest problem in America. IGNORANCE...Read, read and read some more before you make a comment about something as deep as Danish Cartoons...

I just got through reading the Koran. I found exhortations to violence on almost every page --most of it directed at the infidel.

If it's minimizing anti-Islamic sentiment you want, milleniumcab, you have the wrong prescription. I'd advise you not to tout the public reading of --at least-- the Koran. If five minutes of this book were read daily on the evening news, public opinion would certainly grow dramatically more anti-Islamic.

Since that's certain, the American public shows great moderation on the subject; you could quite easily chalk that up to ignorance.

Meeting your criteria for enlightenment at least partially, milleniumcab, I feel compelled to speculate that either you haven't actually read the Koran yourself, or perhaps you're moslem.

[heinz_1966]

yes the "people like me" do often throw out racist unsupported arguments BUT noone on this board or in this country will call ANY of the actions mentioned in the letter as "just."

Maybe you can explain to me exactly what the big deal was about the cartoons? There was a huge thread on this and there's many reasons but how can you possibly compare that "us westerners" drew an insulting cartoon to "you muslims" BEHEAD OUR PEOPLE on TV?????!

Muslims are NOT beheaded on NBC (or in fact at all) in America.

Muslim leaders are NOT murdered here.

Fewer mosques have been attacked in America than in ANY Muslim country.

Muslims are NOT oppressed here by any laws.


For those reasons "us ignorant westerners" are BETTER, tha's right, read BETTER, people than you "peaceful muslims" I don't care about whose culture, history and so on is better but the simple fact that we've moved past blowing up our supermarkets and schools makes us a GREATER society than your average muslim country.

[DiBellaBam]

^ Not politically correct, and not nicely put...but substantially and substantively correct.

[marcusdexz]

I was brought up as a muslim but I am not religious..

[quote=ablarc]I just got through reading the Koran. I found exhortations to violence on almost every page --most of it directed at the infidel.[quote]

I looked up the meaning of INFIDEL, and it means " a person who does not believe in God or any of his messengers and JIHAD is war against INFIDELS".. The Koran recognizes Christianity and Christ, also Judaism and Moses. So my interpretation of that particular passage is that Christians and Jews CAN NOT be INFIDELS. Then again I am somewhat educated and can make up my own mind about what I read.. Most people who live in muslim countries are not as lucky and they will believe anything their local leaders say, religious or otherwise..



[quote]If it's minimizing anti-Islamic sentiment you want, milleniumcab, you have the wrong prescription. I'd advise you not to tout the public reading of --at least-- the Koran. If five minutes of this book were read daily on the evening news, public opinion would certainly grow dramatically more anti-Islamic.

Since that's certain, the American public shows great moderation on the subject; you could quite easily chalk that up to ignorance.[quote]

My post was not so much about minimizing anti-Islamic sentiment but minimizing ignorant interpretation of different civilizations and their culture..And the American people can be ignorant about many different subjects, not just Islam and it's teachings.. If I offended anyone, I am sorry but I feel this is true..

[Sheefeadalfuh]

My post was not so much about minimizing anti-Islamic sentiment but minimizing ignorant interpretation of different civilizations and their culture..And the American people can be ignorant about many different subjects, not just Islam and it's teachings.. If I offended anyone, I am sorry but I feel this is true..

I doubt you offended anyone. Your call to be informed applies to all of us. But after we've informed ourselves and found Pol Pot, our duty to extend the benefit of the doubt evaporates.

You also don't seem to have taken offense. I attribute that to this:

I was brought up as a muslim but I am not religious..

Not being religious makes a person much harder to offend. It's good to be hard to offend; it shows you have inner peace and self-confidence, and don't need the crutch of a religion to be whole.

I have to tell you: a person like me, raised in the values of a liberal democracy, finds the Koran appalling to read: backward, vengeful, violent and (in spite of claims to the contrary) full of hate. It makes it easy to explain those very traits in practicing moslems. Every page of that book tells me that it's the extremism that's orthodox, and moderation like yours represents the deviant minority. It's not what Mohammed wants from you. He wants militancy and aggression. It's on every page.

[embefuri]

yes the "people like me" do often throw out racist unsupported arguments BUT noone on this board or in this country will call ANY of the actions mentioned in the letter as "just."

Maybe you can explain to me exactly what the big deal was about the cartoons? There was a huge thread on this and there's many reasons but how can you possibly compare that "us westerners" drew an insulting cartoon to "you muslims" BEHEAD OUR PEOPLE on TV?????!

Muslims are NOT beheaded on NBC (or in fact at all) in America.

Muslim leaders are NOT murdered here.

Fewer mosques have been attacked in America than in ANY Muslim country.

Muslims are NOT oppressed here by any laws.


For those reasons "us ignorant westerners" are BETTER, tha's right, read BETTER, people than you "peaceful muslims" I don't care about whose culture, history and so on is better but the simple fact that we've moved past blowing up our supermarkets and schools makes us a GREATER society than your average muslim country.

I don't really want to make this into an argument about civilizations or culture or religion...That is not my intention..
We need to understand that most people in the Middle East are uneducated, poor and live in their closed and tribal societies. Some chose and some were forced to live in such manner.. Their religion, whatever that maybe, burried deep within their culture and their culture is everything to them...The only thing the Danish Cartoons accomplished is that undermind the efforts of reasonable people trying to close the rift between western world and the muslim world.. They knew exactly how some of the muslim population would react to the cartoons and they went ahead and published and republished them... These poeple are fanatics in their own views and have their own agenda, that is to put a greater rift between,shall I say, West and East..
And when you come out and say "What is the big deal", the publishers of the cartoons have accomplished their goal..Unfortuanetly what may not be a big deal to us is a huge deal to those muslims who in most part participated in peacefull protests.. But only the unrully and dispicable protests by the FANATICS was mentioned in our media, which is ruled by Sensationalizm..

[goatteatromiag]

Every page of that book tells me that it's the extremism that's orthodox, and moderation like yours represents the deviant minority.

I must disagree.. Most muslims, even ortodox ones, live in peace and do not take the extremist views of the fanatics. It is the extremism that represents the deviant minority.. Unfortunately, that extremism have taken a religion, which has the same TEN COMMANDMENTS as the Bible and the Tora, for a ride...

[AccusaJalsBub]

ONe more Thing ablarc.... Maybe this is not the right place but will you tell me how you highlite the section of a post before you comment on it, multiple times like you did.....
If you notice I tried the same thing couple of posts ago but wasn't successful..

[duexjepevef]

It's true that the overwhelming majority of American Muslims aren't extremists; after all, that's related to why they're here at all. It's also true that to varying degrees majorities of most Islamic countries are not violent extremists.

It's also true that most who profess Christianity don't really practice it in their daily lives as its founder intended. In real terms, to do so would force them to refuse military service and renounce most aggressive behavior and turn the other cheek. This is extremely difficult for most people to do, for it entails severe penalties from others and from the government; so most people don't. This makes them not really practitioners of Christianity as envisioned by Jesus Christ.

Similarly, most Muslims try to avoid violence because they don't want to be killed and they don't hate enough to want to kill others. But a strict --or even a casual-- reading of the Koran reveals that such people are not devout practitioners of Islam. Islam is militant, indeed military; its founder was a warrior who personally conquered as much territory as Alexander the Great.

If you take the Koran literally, the extremists are devout and mainstream; those who don't join them are lukewarm and insufficiently devout. That's not me speaking; you'll find it on nearly every page. Can we be surprised at the products of such a religion?

I pray that Muslims would lose their devotion and become slack practitioners, but the momentum seems to be in the other direction.

Islam is squarely mired in the Dark Ages, and freedom from its tenets is the surest path to social and economic progress in a part of the world that sorely needs it. Muslims are held down by their religion. Only by not practicing it --like you, milleniumcab-- is emancipation possible and emergence into the light of some degree of freedom: spiritual, economic, social and political.

As Salman Rushdie has pointed out, Islam is the enemy of the unfortunate inhabitants of the lands it dominates.

[KukkoDrukko]

ONe more Thing ablarc.... Maybe this is not the right place but will you tell me how you highlite the section of a post before you comment on it, multiple times like you did.....
If you notice I tried the same thing couple of posts ago but wasn't successful..

millenium cab: use the "Quote" button. Then you can dissect into parts the post of the person you're quoting, interspersing your own comments. You must close each segment of the quote with "[/QUOTE]", and preface each subsequent fragment of the quote with "[QUOTE=ablarc]", or whoever else you may be quoting.