[Assunkkensatt]

Another campaign promise kept, and one of the biggest affecting over 500,000 National Guardsmen.

[furious1]

Another campaign promise kept, and one of the biggest affecting over 500,000 National Guardsmen.

This is one that I’ve been waiting for a very long time. The New York Guard — prior to 911 — has been waging a fight with the JCS for meaningful training and a meaningful deployment schedule for a very long time, where we literally had to put the State’s Congressional Delegation to work on our behalf because we had no direct voice at the table. And yet, what has gotten us that voice – finally – is the fact that the Guard has functioned admirably in Active Duty missions. Saudi Arabia/Iraq in 1990 was the first time since World War Two where Guard Headquarters were put in charge of Regular Army units in the field, with my unit’s headquarters – the 369th Transportation Battalion – today’s 369th Sustainment Brigade – one of those first headquarters units. Indeed, it was not until the current series of conflicts came along that Guard Combat Arms units were deployed to combat since Korea, and yet the Guard has always had the largest contingent of Active Duty Experienced members (ex-Draftees and ex-RA who serve a term or two, and then move to the Guard).

Senate easily votes to give Guard a seat on JCS

By Rick Maze - Staff writer
Posted : Tuesday Nov 29, 2011 11:44:48 EST


The National Guard has taken a big step toward gaining a seat on the Joint Chiefs of Staff after the Senate agreed Monday with House-passed legislation to give the Guard a place at the table with the other military leaders.

You can read about this issue in the following four articles:

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/1...guard-110811w/

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/1...s-spot-111011/

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/1...-seat-112911w/

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/1...hiefs-111411w/

[Ekrbcbvh]

This is one that I’ve been waiting for a very long time. The New York Guard — prior to 911 — has been waging a fight with the JCS for meaningful training and a meaningful deployment schedule for a very long time, where we literally had to put the State’s Congressional Delegation to work on our behalf because we had no direct voice at the table. And yet, what has gotten us that voice – finally – is the fact that the Guard has functioned admirably in Active Duty missions. Saudi Arabia/Iraq in 1990 was the first time since World War Two where Guard Headquarters were put in charge of Regular Army units in the field, with my unit’s headquarters – the 369th Transportation Battalion – today’s 369th Sustainment Brigade – one of those first headquarters units. Indeed, it was not until the current series of conflicts came along that Guard Combat Arms units were deployed to combat since Korea, and yet the Guard has always had the largest contingent of Active Duty Experienced members (ex-Draftees and ex-RA who serve a term or two, and then move to the Guard).

Then it is no wonder you never got what you needed...classic case of "You're doing it WRONG!" If the NY ANG/ARNG was looking to resolve training and scheduling issues, they should have gone through the National Guard Bureau and/or their respective services NOT to the JCS...
What this REALLY means is that now the Army will have two generals on the JCS...

[toopyimport]

Then it is no wonder you never got what you needed...classic case of "You're doing it WRONG!" If the NY ANG/ARNG was looking to resolve training and scheduling issues, they should have gone through the National Guard Bureau and/or their respective services NOT to the JCS...
What this REALLY means is that now the Army will have two generals on the JCS...

Actually, it could be two Army or two Air Force Generals on the JCS, since the National Guard is a composite of the Army and the Air Force. At the State Level, there is ONE Chief Of Staff on the Governor's Cabinet, and that job rotates between the senior Army Guard and Air Guard Generals - at least it does in New York. At the NGB Level, the job there also rotates between Air and Army Guards. However, the NGB has been more of an administrative Headquarters rather than an operational Headquarters, and has always been subordinate to the JCS, and the Guard has had to share allocations with the Reserve. As far as equipment was concerned, New York worked around both the NGB and the JCS by having the State purchase as many of the Major End Items as it could afford out of its own money, especially those that could be used for State Government use when the Guard didn't need them. This resulted in two things: New York had major end items that tended to be identical or near identical to those of the Regular Army, and Guard Personnel whose work schedules had sufficient free time, could earn additional Additional Drill Credits towards Retirement - and Drill Pay - operating that equipment supporting the State's Executive Departments. Incidentally, the Kuwait Invasion took place on August 2, 1990, my unit used the August Drill to make sure all Documentation was up to date, got State Active Duty Orders on August 22, 1990, its Deployment Orders on September 23, and flew out from McGuire AFB on November 8, 1990. The equipment that we didn't either take with us on the 747, or sent ahead with the Advanced Party via New York Air NG C-5B, was already at sea in Containers. The units from other States that didn't work the system deployed at a slower pace, and delayed in a lot of cases where they turned in obsolete equipment for current equipment. We stripped needed current equipment from other New York Units before we moved to Fort Dix, so that the only other equipment we needed to wait for was new Radios that had just entered the system, but was otherwise unavailable. If we didn't do what we did, we wouldn't have met the November 8 window.

[viagraman]

Actually, it could be two Army or two Air Force Generals on the JCS, since the National Guard is a composite of the Army and the Air Force. At the State Level, there is ONE Chief Of Staff on the Governor's Cabinet, and that job rotates between the senior Army Guard and Air Guard Generals - at least it does in New York. At the NGB Level, the job there also rotates between Air and Army Guards. However, the NGB has been more of an administrative Headquarters rather than an operational Headquarters, and has always been subordinate to the JCS, and the Guard has had to share allocations with the Reserve. As far as equipment was concerned, New York worked around both the NGB and the JCS by having the State purchase as many of the Major End Items as it could afford out of its own money, especially those that could be used for State Government use when the Guard didn't need them. This resulted in two things: New York had major end items that tended to be identical or near identical to those of the Regular Army, and Guard Personnel whose work schedules had sufficient free time, could earn additional Additional Drill Credits towards Retirement - and Drill Pay - operating that equipment supporting the State's Executive Departments. Incidentally, the Kuwait Invasion took place on August 2, 1990, my unit used the August Drill to make sure all Documentation was up to date, got State Active Duty Orders on August 22, 1990, its Deployment Orders on September 23, and flew out from McGuire AFB on November 8, 1990. The equipment that we didn't either take with us on the 747, or sent ahead with the Advanced Party via New York Air NG C-5B, was already at sea in Containers. The units from other States that didn't work the system deployed at a slower pace, and delayed in a lot of cases where they turned in obsolete equipment for current equipment. We stripped needed current equipment from other New York Units before we moved to Fort Dix, so that the only other equipment we needed to wait for was new Radios that had just entered the system, but was otherwise unavailable. If we didn't do what we did, we wouldn't have met the November 8 window.

They are getting TWO seats? You don't see how absurd that is? Next every Reserve Chief will want a seat, then every base commander. Nothing like rewarding incompetence.... Nothing against that Guard or those that serve in the Guard but it seems like they couldn't get their house in order and are being rewarded with not one but two seats at the big boy table because of it...

[elektikaka]

They are getting TWO seats? You don't see how absurd that is? Next every Reserve Chief will want a seat, then every base commander. Nothing like rewarding incompetence.... Nothing against that Guard or those that serve in the Guard but it seems like they couldn't get their house in order and are being rewarded with not one but two seats at the big boy table because of it...

No, the Guard will only get ONE seat, and that General will represent both the Army and Air Guards - at least that is what the article says - and - if it follows the precedent of the NGB General and the State Adjutant Generals, that seat will rotate between Army Guard and Air Guard. The Generals for the Regular Army and Air Force will retain their seats, which is why there will alternately be two Army or two Air Force Generals on the JCS.

As to the Guard getting its house in order, it was the Constitution that forced the Guard to be beholden to the Federal Government to the point where the Federal Government is required to pay for Equipping, Training, and Paying the members of the Guard. Unfortunately, until the arrival of Desert Storm, the Guard was treated as the Army and Air Force's "Poor Relations", normally sending Hand-Me-Downs to the Guard whenever the First Teams got new equipment. Fortunately, that changed with Desert Storm. As for Incompetence, I cannot speak for all Guard units, but mine was anything but incompetent. Most of our members had served in Vietnam, and so had a good idea of what to expect, both from any enemy we might encounter, and from the Regular Army itself, and we came home with a very decent record, no accidents, and no losses.

[averkif]

Then it is no wonder you never got what you needed...classic case of "You're doing it WRONG!" If the NY ANG/ARNG was looking to resolve training and scheduling issues, they should have gone through the National Guard Bureau and/or their respective services NOT to the JCS...
What this REALLY means is that now the Army will have two generals on the JCS...

Does this mean that the Guard JCS chair will only attend meetings 2 days a month, and attend meetings for 2 weeks in the summer?

[Enfotanab]

Does this mean that the Guard JCS chair will only attend meetings 2 days a month, and attend meetings for 2 weeks in the summer?

Going by how these things have been done in the past, I’d say that the NG Chair on the JCS will be rotated between the two sides of the Guard [AF and Army], and the position will go to whoever is the Senior State/Territory Adjutant General as an Additional Duty until the NG Chair gains voting rights, and then they will create a 3-Star position for the job. The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created. NG Generals – except the Adjutant General and the NGB Commander — have the choice of retaining their Civilian job, with his Personnel Warrant or other AGR Officer filling in for him between Drills, or going AGR.

[CreativeAcrobate]

I am not convinced the arguement of need has been met. Readiness of Guard and Reserve units when federalized rests ultimately with the component service. If my memory serves me the round-out brigade for the 24th Mech was not deployed to Desert Storm because they were deemed non-combat ready.

I understand everyone has their own personal agenda to look after but I am not convinced that having another Army or AF General at the JCS table will do the job any better than the component service chiefs now there. It sounds like the argument is parity vs. readiness yet there is a readiness argument on the table.

[NADALA]

Going by how these things have been done in the past, I’d say that the NG Chair on the JCS will be rotated between the two sides of the Guard [AF and Army], and the position will go to whoever is the Senior State/Territory Adjutant General as an Additional Duty until the NG Chair gains voting rights, and then they will create a 3-Star position for the job. The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created. NG Generals – except the Adjutant General and the NGB Commander — have the choice of retaining their Civilian job, with his Personnel Warrant or other AGR Officer filling in for him between Drills, or going AGR.

Actually I believe the CNGB is a four star billet by law.

[hHwJ229h]

No, the Guard will only get ONE seat, and that General will represent both the Army and Air Guards - at least that is what the article says - and - if it follows the precedent of the NGB General and the State Adjutant Generals, that seat will rotate between Army Guard and Air Guard. The Generals for the Regular Army and Air Force will retain their seats, which is why there will alternately be two Army or two Air Force Generals on the JCS.
As to the Guard getting its house in order, it was the Constitution that forced the Guard to be beholden to the Federal Government to the point where the Federal Government is required to pay for Equipping, Training, and Paying the members of the Guard. Unfortunately, until the arrival of Desert Storm, the Guard/RESERVE was treated as the Army and Air Force's "Poor Relations", normally sending Hand-Me-Downs to the Guard/RESERVE whenever the First Teams got new equipment. Fortunately, that changed with Desert Storm. As for Incompetence, I cannot speak for all Guard units, but mine was anything but incompetent. Most of our members had served in Vietnam, and so had a good idea of what to expect, both from any enemy we might encounter, and from the Regular Army itself, and we came home with a very decent record, no accidents, and no losses.

You mean the NEW YORK precedent because most other states are Army...Army...Army...oh and Army. So if what happened prior to Desert Storm is the reason the Guard gets a seat, then the Air Force Reserve, Army Reserves, Naval Reserves, and USMC Reserves should all get a seat as well. Looks like we will need $1.5 billion to buy a new table.

[bellson]

As for Incompetence, I cannot speak for all Guard units, but mine was anything but incompetent. Most of our members had served in Vietnam, and so had a good idea of what to expect, both from any enemy we might encounter, and from the Regular Army itself, and we came home with a very decent record, no accidents, and no losses.

I can't speak to the competence or incompetence of your ARNG unit but the reasons you state hardly prove its competence. The Vietnam experience would be of minimal if any value in the CENTCOM AOR compounded by the fact that any combat experience these vets had was at least 17 years old. I will say that a record of deployment with no accidents is good news since we had over 100 casualties in theater before the first shot was fired (or bomb dropped).

I worked directly with three ARNG units in DS. One was an MP unit that was competent but pretty stove piped (which for a cop isn't always the best trait. Troops have to be able to act independently from time to time). One was a unit out of TN which ran the RAOC in Riyadh and was again competent (although my contact with them was limited the command echelon). The other was a CI unit from NY made up mostly of NY detectives. They were nice guys but completely out of their element in that AOR. It was like watching an episode of NYPD Blue where the cast finds themselves transported to an alien planet. In their defense it didn’t help that my captain hated them (and the entire US Army) for some reason and kept inventing ways to put roadblocks in their way. I should say that I found members of all three units motivated and enjoyed working with them.

((He did the same with the TN ARNG unit until a letter from LTC Horner sat him down in the corner. He ended up embarrassing an AF Colonel and that is who sat him down – but I digress))

[xT0U3UGh]

Actually I believe the CNGB is a four star billet by law.

I went looking on the NGB website, and we are both apparently right. General Craig R. McKinley IS the current Chief of the NGB, I looked at his bio here: http://www.af.mil/informa.ion/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6415 and he apparently started his career with a Reserve commission, and moved up to a Regular Commission the way Colin Powell did, and is in the NGB Slot as a Regular Air Force Officer, rather than with a Nartional Guard Commission. What suggests this is that the Bio says nothing about him holding both a Federal Commission AND as State Commission, which has normally been the case for National Guard officers in Federal slots. What makes this an issue is Article I, Section 8, Clause 16 of the Constitution, the pertinent part of which says: "Congress shall have power ... to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;..."

The only reason I can think of why there would be a General with a Regular Commission in the 4-Star NGB Slot instead of an NG General, would be that there are no 4-Star NG Generals, much less a 3-Star NG General. The reason why the NG has never bothered with 3-Star ranks is simply that they had no 3-Star commands because the States saw no need to make the State AG a 3-Star rank.

So, yes, there is a 4-Star in the NGB Chief slot at present, but I doubt that the States will keep that up once we get back to Peacetime, especially since this is the first time any NG Slot had a 4-Star rank attached to it.

[gkihueonhjh]

I went looking on the NGB website, and we are both apparently right. General Craig R. McKinley IS the current Chief of the NGB, I looked at his bio here: http://www.af.mil/informa.ion/bios/bio.asp?bioID=6415 and he apparently started his career with a Reserve commission, and moved up to a Regular Commission the way Colin Powell did, and is in the NGB Slot as a Regular Air Force Officer, rather than with a Nartional Guard Commission. What suggests this is that the Bio says nothing about him holding both a Federal Commission AND as State Commission, which has normally been the case for National Guard officers in Federal slots. What makes this an issue is Article I, Section 8, Clause 16 of the Constitution, the pertinent part of which says: "Congress shall have power ... to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the service of the United States, reserving to the states respectively, the appointment of the officers, and the authority of training the militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;..."

The only reason I can think of why there would be a General with a Regular Commission in the 4-Star NGB Slot instead of an NG General, would be that there are no 4-Star NG Generals, much less a 3-Star NG General. The reason why the NG has never bothered with 3-Star ranks is simply that they had no 3-Star commands because the States saw no need to make the State AG a 3-Star rank.

So, yes, there is a 4-Star in the NGB Chief slot at present, but I doubt that the States will keep that up once we get back to Peacetime, especially since this is the first time any NG Slot had a 4-Star rank attached to it.

As usual a lot of smoke to cover an error.

I simply said that "the CNGB is a four star billet by law" Which is true because of the National Defense Authorization Bill of FY 2008.

The rest of what you said is typically irrelevant to what I said....which BTW was to correct your previous error in stating "….The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created.”

So, no we BOTH were not right, only ONE of us was.

[Calluffence]

As usual a lot of smoke to cover an error.

I simply said that "the CNGB is a four star billet by law" Which is true because of the National Defense Authorization Bill of FY 2008.

The rest of what you said is typically irrelevant to what I said....which BTW was to correct your previous error in stating "….The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created.”

So, no we BOTH were not right, only ONE of us was.

The law can say what it pleases about the rank of the NGB Chief, and the Guard will only be able to put forward promotable 2-Stars for the position since Guard 3-Stars are rare as Hen's Teeth. At best, this means that the Guard will continue to put forward their best available 2-Star, and the JCS will counter with their comparable 3-Star, who will be promoted to 4-Star to fill the slot, and then Retire at the end of his term. Under the old law, the Guard 2-Star would put on his 3-Star rank for the job, and then retire at the end of his term because he would be forced to revert to his 2-Star rank if he wanted to continue with the Guard. The highest level Field Command in the Guard is the Army Division and its Air Force equivalent, and they all currently have been reduced in size to Seperate Brigades that round out Regular Division-sized units. Once again, once Peace returns, the NGB Chief will return to its 3-Star status - never mind what the law says - and the 3-Star will retire when his term is up.

[hansen384cbh]

The law can say what it pleases about the rank of the NGB Chief, and the Guard will only be able to put forward promotable 2-Stars for the position since Guard 3-Stars are rare as Hen's Teeth. At best, this means that the Guard will continue to put forward their best available 2-Star, and the JCS will counter with their comparable 3-Star, who will be promoted to 4-Star to fill the slot, and then Retire at the end of his term. Under the old law, the Guard 2-Star would put on his 3-Star rank for the job, and then retire at the end of his term because he would be forced to revert to his 2-Star rank if he wanted to continue with the Guard. The highest level Field Command in the Guard is the Army Division and its Air Force equivalent, and they all currently have been reduced in size to Seperate Brigades that round out Regular Division-sized units. Once again, once Peace returns, the NGB Chief will return to its 3-Star status - never mind what the law says - and the 3-Star will retire when his term is up.

And..............after all that......this statement "….The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created.”

IS STILL WRONG.

On an additional note....the current Chief of the NGB was a Lt General prior to his appointment and promotion to General.......

[ZanazaKar]

And..............after all that......this statement "….The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created.”

IS STILL WRONG.

On an additional note....the current Chief of the NGB was a Lt General prior to his appointment and promotion to General.......

Yes, but he is Regular Air Force, NOT Air National Guard. Which State gave him his Guard Commission?

[Kissntell]

Yes, but he is Regular Air Force, NOT Air National Guard. Which State gave him his Guard Commission?

And still..................this statement "….The alternative would be that the NGB Commander, who is the ONLY NG 3-Star, will fill that slot as an additional duty until it becomes a voting job, whereapon the second 3-Star job would be created.”

IS STILL WRONG.



It really isn't hard......try it.

[Gintovtosik]

Yes, but he is Regular Air Force, NOT Air National Guard. Which State gave him his Guard Commission?

The Congressional Record would seem to differ from you on this. See page S10494, October 2, 2008.

"The following named officer for appointment as the Chief of the National Guard Bureau and for appointment to the grade indicated in the Reserve of the Air Force under
title 10, U.S.C., sections 601 and 10502:
To be general
Lt. Gen. Craig R. McKinley"

I see an awful lot of Florida assignments in his bio, so why don't we go out on a limb and say his Guard commission is from, oh, Florida.

[thomaskkk]

The Congressional Record would seem to differ from you on this. See page S10494, October 2, 2008.

"The following named officer for appointment as the Chief of the National Guard Bureau and for appointment to the grade indicated in the Reserve of the Air Force under
title 10, U.S.C., sections 601 and 10502:
To be general
Lt. Gen. Craig R. McKinley"

I see an awful lot of Florida assignments in his bio, so why don't we go out on a limb and say his Guard commission is from, oh, Florida.

Yes but...................Quantum field theory (QFT) provides a theoretical framework for constructing quantum mechanical models of systems classically parametrized (represented) by an infinite number of dynamical degrees of freedom, that is, fields and (in a condensed matter context) many-body systems. It is the natural and quantitative language of particle physics and condensed matter physics. Most theories in modern particle physics, including the Standard Model of elementary particles and their interactions, are formulated as relativistic quantum field theories. Quantum field theories are used in many contexts, and are especially vital in elementary particle physics, where the particle count/number may change over the course of a reaction. They are also used in the description of critical phenomena and quantum phase transitions, such as in the BCS theory of superconductivity. Quantum field theory is thought by many to be the unique and correct outcome of combining the rules of quantum mechanics with special relativity.
In perturbative quantum field theory, the forces between particles are mediated by other particles. The electromagnetic force between two electrons is caused by an exchange of photons. Intermediate vector bosons mediate the weak force and gluons mediate the strong force. There is currently no complete quantum theory of the remaining fundamental force, gravity, but many of the proposed theories postulate the existence of a graviton particle that mediates it. These force-carrying particles are virtual particles and, by definition, cannot be detected while carrying the force, because such detection will imply that the force is not being carried. In addition, the notion of "force mediating particle" comes from perturbation theory, and thus does not make sense in a context of bound states.
In QFT photons are not thought of as 'little billiard balls', they are considered to be field quanta – necessarily chunked ripples in a field, or "excitations", that 'look like' particles. Fermions, like the electron, can also be described as ripples/excitations in a field, where each kind of fermion has its own field. In summary, the classical visualisation of "everything is particles and field", in quantum field theory, resolves into "everything is particles", which then resolves into "everything is fields". In the end, particles are regarded as excited states of a field (field quanta). The gravitational field and the electromagnetic field are the only two fundamental fields in Nature that have infinite range and a corresponding classical low-energy limit, which greatly diminishes and hides their "particle-like" excitations. Albert Einstein, in 1905, attributed "particle-like" and discrete exchanges of momenta and energy, characteristic of "field quanta", to the electromagnetic field. Originally, his principal motivation was to explain the thermodynamics of radiation. Although it is often claimed that the photoelectric and Compton effects require a quantum description of the EM field, this is now understood to be untrue, and proper proof of the quantum nature of radiation is now taken up into modern quantum optics as in the antibunching effect. The word "photon" was coined in 1926 by the great physical chemist Gilbert Newton Lewis (see also the articles photon antibunching and laser).
In the "low-energy limit", the quantum field-theoretic description of the electromagnetic field, quantum electrodynamics, does not exactly reduce to James Clerk Maxwell's 1864 theory of classical electrodynamics. Small quantum corrections due to virtual electron positron pairs give rise to small non-linear corrections to the Maxwell equations, although the "classical limit" of quantum electrodynamics has not been as widely explored as that of quantum mechanics.
Presumably, the as yet unknown correct quantum field-theoretic treatment of the gravitational field will become and "look exactly like" Einstein's general theory of relativity in the "low-energy limit". Indeed, quantum field theory itself is possibly the low-energy-effective-field-theory limit of a more fundamental theory such as superstring theory. Compare in this context the article effective field theory

(My thanks as always to Google and Wikipedia)