[papadopul]

Without habeas corpus, nothing else in the Constitution means jack and shit.

And NO ONE here is alarmed about allowing the military to pick up Americans off the street and murder them?!

I am...

One of my friends was talking to me and I am trying to confirm his source, he said 7 days worth of food supply can get you labeled a terrorist. I will present evidence when I get it, sorry though.

[swoluelvede]

One of the major misconceptions about our Constitution is that it "Gives us our rights", as if simply abolishing it would eliminate all moral and ethical constraints on our government to act in any way it sees fit regardless of who it affects. This is modern day positivism at its finest, the notion that the government somehow "owns" us and that any "rights" we are "granted" are only the products of a benevolent government. This is also the antithesis of what is stated in our own Declaration of Independence. The rights we have are natural and contractual, the Constitution was designed to bind the government in such a fashion that it would recognize every individual has these rights and should never infringe upon them. Every "person" is granted habeus corpus regardless of their citizenship. Being a citizen has certain rights (voting) and certain inherent responsibilities, but the right to a fair trial is a right of persons. Suspension of habeus corpus as stated in Article 1 Section 9 is very limited by nature, to cases of invasion or rebellion when the public safety might requirement. This should not be construed as an individual might "contribute" to actions that "might" hurt a person "someday" . The day we surrender that authority over to our government is then day we should accept that this authority may one be used against us.

[Quiniacab]

BTW, it passed the senate 61-39 yesterday. Now on to the house. Here is the list of who voted for it. 42 (R), 19 (D).

Wow.. a higher number of dems that i thought there would be.

[Efonukmp]

Wow.. a higher number of dems that i thought there would be.

Actually, there has been a revised version that passed 97-3 a few days ago. I had the going away party awhile ago and if Ron doesn't win, I am just going to go along, shut up and color as long as my family is safe. The apathy from so many in America to the fact that their rights are about to be gone is disheartening.

[GoblinGaga]

Wow.. a higher number of dems that i thought there would be.

There's a saying that a change isn't final until the other side accepts it.

So Bush may have put the lid on Democracy's coffin, but it was Obama who hammered the nails in.

[mirex]

When it comes to McCain, one must always keep in mind that he is the enemy of the U.S. Citizen. End of story...

[ElectraDupu]

I am...

One of my friends was talking to me and I am trying to confirm his source, he said 7 days worth of food supply can get you labeled a terrorist. I will present evidence when I get it, sorry though.

I heard that off the Daily Show. Here's one video: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...xrs=share_copy

Part 2: http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/we...xrs=share_copy

Starting at 2:08 are the things you can be considered a "terrorist" - 2:30 is Rand Paul discussing the following:

- Someone missing fingers on their hands is a suspect according to DoJ
- Someone who has guns; someone who has ammunition that is weatherproofed
- Someone who has more than 7 days of food in their house

The end is one of the funnier parts. But yeah...I can't believe it passed.

[Hoijdxvh]

One of the major misconceptions about our Constitution is that it "Gives us our rights", as if simply abolishing it would eliminate all moral and ethical constraints on our government to act in any way it sees fit regardless of who it affects. This is modern day positivism at its finest, the notion that the government somehow "owns" us and that any "rights" we are "granted" are only the products of a benevolent government. This is also the antithesis of what is stated in our own Declaration of Independence. The rights we have are natural and contractual, the Constitution was designed to bind the government in such a fashion that it would recognize every individual has these rights and should never infringe upon them. Every "person" is granted habeus corpus regardless of their citizenship. Being a citizen has certain rights (voting) and certain inherent responsibilities, but the right to a fair trial is a right of persons. Suspension of habeus corpus as stated in Article 1 Section 9 is very limited by nature, to cases of invasion or rebellion when the public safety might requirement. This should not be construed as an individual might "contribute" to actions that "might" hurt a person "someday" . The day we surrender that authority over to our government is then day we should accept that this authority may one be used against us.

But this law is giving the government the power to detain American citizens who they "think" are terrorists or are "suspected" of terrorism. It wants to give the government the right to go arrest a citizen, in America, and not give them a trial which clearly violates the Constitution. They added this to the Defense Authorization Bill like they always try to sneak things in on that. They know it will always get passed. So now instead of just rounding up suspected terrorists in Iraq/Afghanistan, they want to round them up here. Go to the comment I posted with the videos from the Daily Show. Rand Paul states during the debate of the bill that there are already laws that "classify" a terrorist. Missing fingers, having guns and weather proof ammo or 7 days worth of food could brand you a terrorist?

Really? Well a lot of people are terrorists than for using their 2nd Amendment right to bear arms. Missing fingers? So then I guess veterans who lost limbs in combat are terrorists (oh they already tried to accuse us of being a "risk" once), and anyone else who lost fingers is a terrorist? And 7 days worth of food?! Maybe some people like to buy in bulk.

That's what people are upset about. The government wants the power to just round up whoever they want. That sounds like a dicatorship to me. I mean I like feeling safe that I can walk down the street and not be afraid some men in suits and sedans are going to stop and snatch me away in the night. Or take my family.

[IteseFrusty]

When it comes to McCain, one must always keep in mind that he is the enemy of the U.S. Citizen. End of story...

He doesn't seem to fond of vets either. The idea of a former serviceman leaving the military and starting a normal, successful civilian life appears to be totally incomprehensible to him.

[raspirator]

Don't tell the feds but every week I shop for a 5-7 day supply of groceries.

[Glamyclitlemi]

You probably also buy suspicious chemicals that could be used as poisons or explosives.

[chipkluchi]

Anyone else find it a bit odd that it seems the only thing Dems and Reps can agree on is screwing American Citizens? First the Patriot act-say what you want about it-had good parts and bad parts. Now this. Both if properly used can be positives but both had/have a lot of room to go very badly very quickly. Not sure I personally like the idea that just declaring a group I belong to a terrorist group should mean I no longer have any rights or protection....

[eduptultyt]

Anyone else find it a bit odd that it seems the only thing Dems and Reps can agree on is screwing American Citizens?

Hey, we voted for them. Suzie Rottencrotch dates abusive boyfriends. The Lance Corporal she's sleeping with punched her yesterday cuz he failed field day inspection. So who's fault is that? His? Or hers... for dating idiots?

[costamarianavia]

Don't tell the feds but every week I shop for a 5-7 day supply of groceries.

Expect some men in dark suits at your door shortly...lol. (That might not be a lol someday though if these type of bills keep being passed).

I wonder how long until people disappear in the night for speaking out against the government?

[mincbiori]

Hey, we voted for them. Suzie Rottencrotch dates abusive boyfriends. The Lance Corporal she's sleeping with punched her yesterday cuz he failed field day inspection. So who's fault is that? His? Or hers... for dating idiots?

I'm confused. I don't see how that's comparable. It's the Lance Corporal's fault always. Most abusers don't start out that way.

[AntonioMQ]

I'm confused. I don't see how that's comparable. It's the Lance Corporal's fault always. Most abusers don't start out that way.

My point is that Suzie repeatedly seeks out abusive lovers, the underlying cause of the abuse is herself. What happens when you throw a pimp in jail? His girls pool their money to pay bail.

Likewise, everybody bitches and moans about how bad politicians are... but we're the ones who voted them into office.

[pouslytut]

My point is that Suzie repeatedly seeks out abusive lovers, the underlying cause of the abuse is herself. What happens when you throw a pimp in jail? His girls pool their money to pay bail.

Likewise, everybody bitches and moans about how bad politicians are... but we're the ones who voted them into office.

I won't get into the psychology of domestic violence and abusers, etc.

With politicians, most people vote for what seems the lesser evil. The only other option is for people to not vote - but then you get the wrong people voting or people who have no idea who they're voting for go out and vote. It would be helpful if campaigns weren't focused on how much money is raised - then the average American could run for office.

PLus we're Americans - we're good at bitching and moaning. That's the American way now isn't it?

[Evoryboypoto]

I won't get into the psychology of domestic violence and abusers, etc.

With politicians, most people vote for what seems the lesser evil. The only other option is for people to not vote - but then you get the wrong people voting or people who have no idea who they're voting for go out and vote. It would be helpful if campaigns weren't focused on how much money is raised - then the average American could run for office.

PLus we're Americans - we're good at bitching and moaning. That's the American way now isn't it?

Not a whole lot of evidence for that - so far the Republican debate has been a contest about who has the most extreme religious views, is the most pro-war, and wants the biggest tax cuts.

[9Goarveboofe]

Not a whole lot of evidence for that - so far the Republican debate has been a contest about who has the most extreme religious views, is the most pro-war, and wants the biggest tax cuts.

Except for Ron Paul of course. That is why Ron wasn't invited to the Jewish "debate".

[km2000]

......... the Jewish "debate".

?? what did I miss?